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Alejandro/ Chaitanya,<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 23 October 2012 10:27 AM,
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EF4976@W8-EX10MB.unam.local"
type="cite">
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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Courier New;color:
#000000;font-size: 10pt;"> Chaitanya,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>thanks! so, not much of an Internet Governance aspect to
this issue left. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
In fact, the primary internet 'Governance' question posed in my
initial posting remains and has not been addressed at all, with the
discussion swerving towards operational issues.<br>
<br>
I had asked, why should US and Japan develop "an international
framework to support cloud computing" and not all countries -
developed and developing - together do it? Any responses to this
primary IG question. <br>
<br>
And since Alejandro mentions 'ugly imperialists' , I will like to
say that it is in unilaterally imposing governance frameworks
developed by rich countries over the whole world that 'ugly
imperialism' comes in. You do all the governance work, and if
developing countries want to do it, call them as despots out to
control the Internet, and for good measure, co-opt a willing civil
society into the game.<br>
<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D59EF4976@W8-EX10MB.unam.local"
type="cite">
<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Courier New;color:
#000000;font-size: 10pt;">
<div>On to the next one.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yours,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<div><br>
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+525541444475 <br>
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UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
Blog: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
LinkedIn: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
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<div id="divRpF842608" style="direction: ltr; "><font
face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2"><b>Desde:</b>
Chaitanya Dhareshwar [<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:chaitanyabd@gmail.com">chaitanyabd@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> lunes, 22 de octubre de 2012 21:08<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch<br>
<b>CC:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [governance] U.S. - Japan Policy
Cooperation Dialogue on the Internet Economy<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Hi Alex,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm not blaming developing countries (or developed
countries or anything else) here - its just that even
when these facilities are provided and available the
buyers are few. My example CtrlS is on par with
Softlayer in most ways - except most importantly it's
location. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>End of the day getting the system up from the
investment capital and ensuring it has a workable
revenue stream become quite different - and without the
revenue stream even the best won't be <em>able to </em>be
there very long. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>-C<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 12:36 AM,
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx"
target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex; padding-left:1ex;
border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);
border-left-width:1px; border-left-style:solid">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Courier New; font-size:10pt;
direction:ltr">Chaitanya,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>let me tell you a short story about clouds
and grids in the real world. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Several years ago in the consortium for the
Internet-2 project in Mexico I (while
Academic-CIO at UNAM) got funds for a project,
the Metropolitan Supercomputing Delta, which
would interconnect three supercomputers at high
speed (ours was a Top-500 when purchased, 1,300
processors.) The key to the design was that the
communication between the computers would never
be more than an order of magnitude slower than
the fiber inside the computers so we would not
be working with batch jobs but some level of
synched computing power for big science problems
like computerized fluid dynamics, quantum
chemistry, etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This would become a National Reference
Laboratory and a great place to train people in
grids and a stepping stone toward provisioning
cloud computing. The project was authorized but
the funds were not released for several years
(in the meantime I left that job.) Well, it's
2012 and it's beginning to work because it took
years to go across the regulations to do things
like dig trenches to cross a sidewalk between a
university and the subway to connect to a fiber
there and other stuff like that. Inefficiency,
bureaucracy, lack of vision, petty politics, all
played a role. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Darned missed opportunity, darned high
opportunity cost: we never got to train,
hands-on and in critical, bleeding edfe,
operations, the several hundred engineers we
would have. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Is this the fault of the ugly imperialists
out there? Or will we admit that in developing
countries we have some laundry of our own to
wash before blaming it all on them? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Why can't we, quoting you, "pull up excellent
network speeds and stable datacenters" while
"they" can?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alejandro Pisanty<br>
<div><br>
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style="font-family:arial;
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New">SMS +525541444475 <br>
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty<br>
UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510
Mexico DF Mexico<br>
<br>
Blog: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://pisanty.blogspot.com"
target="_blank">http://pisanty.blogspot.com</a><br>
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href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty</a><br>
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http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614</a><br>
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target="_blank">http://twitter.com/apisanty</a><br>
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target="_blank">http://www.isoc.org</a><br>
. . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . </font></span></span></p>
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<div style="font-family:Times New Roman;
font-size:16px">
<hr>
<div style="direction:ltr"><font face="Tahoma"
color="#000000"><b>Desde:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">
governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
en nombre de Chaitanya Dhareshwar [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chaitanyabd@gmail.com"
target="_blank">chaitanyabd@gmail.com</a>]<br>
<b>Enviado el:</b> lunes, 22 de octubre de
2012 10:35<br>
<b>Hasta:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
Jean-Louis FULLSACK<br>
<b>CC:</b> parminder<br>
<b>Asunto:</b> Re: [governance] U.S. -
Japan Policy Cooperation Dialogue on the
Internet Economy<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<div>Increasing the digital divide more
like - the fastest clouds would be in
the most developed countries and thus
the entire "cloud computing
investment" will go: to the most
developed countries. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Unless the less developed ones are
able to pull up excellent network
speeds and stable datacenters. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>How many people here would choose
CtrlS over Softlayer(Theplanet)?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>-C<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 22,
2012 at 5:56 PM, Jean-Louis FULLSACK <span
dir="ltr"> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jlfullsack@orange.fr"
target="_blank">jlfullsack@orange.fr</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
padding-left:1ex;
border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);
border-left-width:1px;
border-left-style:solid">
<p> </p>
<p>Isn't this a joke :</p>
<div>
<p> </p>
<p>........For these reasons,
industry representatives
suggested the following
activities:</p>
<p>> · U.S-Japan collaboration
for establishing an
international framework to
support cloud computing.</p>
<p>> · Promoting the use of
cloud computing in developing
countries and reducing the
digital divide.</p>
</div>
<p><br>
<br>
Either these prominent experts
from Japan and US never were
staying in African countries or
they try to make us laughing ! I
imagine the worries of Internet
users in these countries with
cloud based Internet networking in
Cameroons or in Senegal (and a lot
of others). For sure : they won't
laugh at all !</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Best</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Jean-Louis Fullsack</p>
<p> </p>
<p> <br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="padding-left:5px;
margin-left:5px;
border-left-color:rgb(255,0,0);
border-left-width:2px;
border-left-style:solid"> >
Message du 22/10/12 09:44<br>
> De : "parminder" <br>
> A : <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
> Copie à : <br>
> Objet : Re: [governance] U.S.
- Japan Policy Cooperation
Dialogue on the Internet Economy
<div>
<div><br>
> <br>
><br>
>
<div>On Sunday 21 October 2012
09:50 PM, Fahd A. Batayneh
wrote:<br>
></div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">The United
States and Japan held the
fourth Director
General-level meeting of
the U.S.-Japan Policy
Cooperation Dialogue on
the Internet Economy in
Washington, D.C.<br>
> <br>
> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.yumanewsnow.com/index.php/news/latest/1450-u-s-japan-policy-cooperation-dialogue-on-the-internet-economy"
target="_blank">
http://www.yumanewsnow.com/index.php/news/latest/1450-u-s-japan-policy-cooperation-dialogue-on-the-internet-economy</a><br>
></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
> From the agreement text:<br>
> <br>
>
<blockquote>Encouraging other
countries to develop
principles consistent with
the “United States-Japan
Trade Principles for
Information and
Communication Technology
Services.<br>
></blockquote>
<br>
> SNIP<br>
> <br>
>
<blockquote>........For these
reasons, industry
representatives suggested
the following activities:
<p>> · U.S-Japan
collaboration for
establishing an
international framework to
support cloud computing.</p>
<p>> · Promoting the use
of cloud computing in
developing countries and
reducing the digital
divide.</p>
<p>> · Considering a
range of policy issues,
including: privacy, cloud
computing security,
digital content,
interoperability, and
portability.</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
> (quotes end)<br>
> <br>
> So rich countries merely
go along developing 'global'
principles for the Internet,
and to 'encourage' other
countries to follow / adopt
them. Industry reps too want
them to develop '<em><strong>international
</strong></em>framework to
support cloud computing', to
promote use of cloud computing
in developing countries, and
to consider a range of policy
issues....<br>
> <br>
> And when proposals like
UN CIRP are made with a view
to address these global
Internet policy issues at
globally democratic spaces,
not only these developed
countries, most
hypocritically, cry foul, so
does the industry (here seen
actively encouraging developed
countries to do exactly the
same kind of work), and also,
most disappointingly, the so
called global IG civil
society.<br>
> <br>
> Perhaps it is time the
global IG civil society stop
being the B team of developed
countries' political and
economic interests and really
take up the interests of the
more marginalised that it is
supposed to represent. They
need to develop an independent
global IG agenda to be
championed by the civil
society, which looks like
something worth championing by
civil society. <br>
> <br>
> Does anyone here have
answers why they remain silent
with regard to the active work
of rich countries to develop
'global' Internet policy
principles, and react so
rabidly to any effort at
democratising global Internet
policy making. Fine if they
dont like the CIRP proposal,
come up with something else.
But the complicit silence is
deafening. <br>
> <br>
> parminder <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
> Fahd<br>
></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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