[governance] Fwd: Re: [igf_members] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable

parminder parminder at itforchange.net
Thu Oct 18 13:16:26 EDT 2012 

Dear Benedek,

On Thursday 18 October 2012 01:15 PM, Benedek, Wolfgang 
(wolfgang.benedek at uni-graz.at) wrote:
> Dear Parminder,
>
> while I agree that consumer rights are different from human rights,

That is all I am saying. And this distinction is important. Also as 
discussed below, we are into a kind of framing discussion and this 
priority mention of consumer rights in a human rights description is not 
just a casual thing. It is very meaningful, and has to be seen in its 
meaningfulness (as discussed in brief a little later)
> I want to emphasize that they can and should have an effect on 
> consumer rights.
Is there any area where human rights cannot/ may not and should not have 
an effect? That is the meaning of human rights, they are applicable 
everywhere. They are very basic, first principles. This does not mean 
that we can conflate an area where they should be applicable with human 
rights themselves. Not to make the distinction would be quite 
detrimental to human rights. Would you not agree as a Prof of human rights?

> State bodies bound by human rights should regulate private actors in a 
> way that that they respect human rights,

That has always been so meant. Does not all private activity or even all 
regulation as human rights areas. What is the sanctity left for human 
rights if it were to.

> i.e. in the field of data protection, freedom of expression or quality 
> of services, which might also relate to economic, social or cultural 
> rights, like the right to education.

Well just might :). Although none seems concerned that there could be 
economic, social and cultural rights vis a vis the Internet and IG. 
Would that exploration not be necessary? Does framing a round table on 
human rights while completely ignoring these set of positive rights not 
send a wrong signal, and also a very significant wrong signal. This is 
my second objection to the present framing of the round table.
>
> In this context, the Council of Europe has established a Committee of 
> Experts on (Human) Rights of Internet Users,

Hopefully, they would not conflate consumer rights and human rights, or 
are they likely too. This present round table framing, backed by an 
European country and some key civil society groups, is foreboding in 
this regard.

> which recently has started it s work with the objective to elaborate 
> what are (human) rights of internet users.  We are aware that this is 
> a difficult area, precisely for the reasons You mentioned, but think 
> that because of the practical effects which terms of service and other 
> private agreements do have on the realization of human rights of 
> users, there is a need to look at these private contracts from a 
> human rights perspective.

Again, isnt that everything needs to be looked at from a HR angle, which 
then does not turn everything into human rights. Isnt this a straight 
forward logic. I am increasingly bothered about certain kind of creeping 
encroachments and sullying of human rights by a neo-liberal framework.  
Is anything at all safe or sacrosanct from the god of market?

parminder


>
> Best regards
>
> Wolfgang Benedek
>
> Von: parminder <parminder at itforchange.net 
> <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>
> Antworten an: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>>, parminder 
> <parminder at itforchange.net <mailto:parminder at itforchange.net>>
> Datum: Donnerstag, 18. Oktober 2012 09:18
> An: "governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>" <governance at lists.igcaucus.org 
> <mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>>
> Betreff: [governance] Fwd: Re: [igf_members] Proposal: Human Rights 
> Roundtable
>
>
> this is the comment I sent to the MAG (multistakeholder advisory 
> group) of the IGF.
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	Re: [igf_members] Proposal: Human Rights Roundtable
> Date: 	Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:18:25 +0530
> From: 	parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> To: 	igf_members at intgovforum.org
>
>
>
> Dear Alice/ All,
>
> Apologies for intrusion by someone who, I understand, has an observer 
> status on this list.
>
> This initiative of a round table on human rights is very important. 
> Since it is not just an workshop, but a higher level activity with 
> some kind of a larger IGF/ MAG ownership (do I understand it right!), 
> we have to be especially careful about framing the background note and 
> agenda. In this regard I have the following observations to make.
>
> (1) Consumer rights are not considered as human rights. Consumer 
> rights are based on private contracts, although the consumer as the 
> structurally weaker party in such contracts is provided some special 
> general protections which are embodied in consumer rights. Human 
> rights are based on the social contract. (There are those who go even 
> further and claim that they are kind of part of our 'natural 
> condition' but I dont buy that.)  I do not think we should include 
> consumer rights as part of human rights. It greatly dilutes the 
> discourse of human rights, and their legitimacy.
>
> (2) The background note focusses exclusively on civil and political 
> rights, like privacy, FoE, and does not mention social, economic and 
> cultural rights at all. It is useful to refer in this regard the 
> opening paragraphs of the Geneva Declaration that speaks of 
> indivisibility of human rights, and the need to take all kinds and 
> categories of human rights together. In context of the Internet, one 
> can immediately think of human rights issues like, universal access 
> (especially with some countries already treating it as a right) and 
> net neutrality. There are others as well, like cultural rights 
> involved in multilingualism, domain name allocations etc. It will be 
> good if we can expand the note to give representation and space to all 
> kinds of human rights and not just civil and political rights. 
> Alternatively, maybe we can call the event as a round table on civil 
> and political rights.
>
> This is for your consideration.
>
> Also, can I share this note with civil society groups for their comments?
>
> best regards, parminder
>
>
> On Friday 12 October 2012 12:05 PM, alice at apc.org wrote:
>> Dear Colleaques,
>>
>> We wish to submit this proposal for a Human Rights round Table.
>>
>> Apologies for submitting it a bit late, but hope you will consider it.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Alice
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> HUMAN RIGHTS ROUNDTABLE
>> IGF 2012
>>
>> Background
>>
>> During the IGF MAG meeting held in May 2012 in Geneva, several ways to
>> develop the cross-cutting issues (human rights and development) were
>> proposed. Particularly,  the group in charge of structuring the Taking
>> Stock and the Way Forward session suggested that the second part of the
>> session includes feedback from the cross-cutting
>>
>> themes which could be developed through round tables. It was supported by
>> other MAG members (see transcripts MAG meeting 17 May)[1].
>>
>> Additionally, it is important to mention as a background element, that
>> approximately 40 workshop proposals for the 2012 Internet Governance Forum
>> make specific reference to human rights related issues, including privacy,
>> freedom of expression, data rights, cyber security, and internet
>> intermediary liability.
>>
>> Consumer rights are a growing area of interest, including the need for
>> transparency, regulatory oversight, and mechanisms for addressing consumer
>> complaints.  Data ownership and privacy are major issues in this area.
>>
>> Human rights in relation to security is a major theme for the IGF,
>> including cybercrime, and the tension between privacy and security. There
>> are several proposed workshops on the protection of children and youth, as
>> well as practical workshops on surveillance and data protection.
>>
>> Developing best practices and legal frameworks is discussed in many of the
>> workshop proposals, particularly in light of increasing restrictions on
>> freedom of expression, and new liabilities for internet intermediaries.
>>
>> Multi-stakeholderism is a cross-cutting theme in the workshop proposals,
>> particularly with respect to determining best practices and frameworks.
>>
>> Based on it, Kenya, in partnership with APC, Finland and Sweden, would
>> like to propose the organisation of a human rights round table which look
>> at how HR issues related to the internet were addressed in the various
>> main sessions and workshops.
>>
>>
>> Objective
>>
>> The objective of the human rights round table is to gather comprehensive
>> feedback from the various main sessions and workshops in relation to which
>> human rights issues were addressed by the various stakeholders and to use
>> those inputs to feed the Taking Stock and the Way Forward session.  It
>> will help us to increase knowledge and understanding of the human rights
>> and the internet specific concerns and challenges the various stakeholders
>> have as well as their proposals to address them in the framework of the
>> internet governance debate.  It will also help to increase understanding
>> of the linkages between the HR issues addressed in the various main
>> sessions and the main IGF theme.
>>
>> Themes in analysis will include privacy, censorship, intermediary
>> liability, cybercrime, among others.
>>
>> Format
>>
>> The round table will be held in a multi-stakeholder environment in which
>> speakers/participants who took part of the various main sessions and
>> workshops bring their perspectives in a concrete manner to feed the TSWF
>> session and propose ways to advance the HR discussion within the IGF.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> igf_members mailing list
>> igf_members at intgovforum.orghttp://mail.intgovforum.org/mailman/listinfo/igf_members_intgovforum.org
>
>
>
>
>


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