[governance] Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website
Suresh Ramasubramanian
suresh at hserus.net
Wed Nov 21 10:59:28 EST 2012
I would not normally do it except that we have, so far, a tendency to
engage in polemic and ad hominem rather than address something based on
facts, which tends to provoke a like reaction.
Andrea Glorioso [21/11/12 16:06 +0100]:
>I do not often intervene in this mailing list, although I follow it with
>great attention.
>
>But I must say that independently from any substantive opinion one might
>have on Google, the ITU, WCIT or anything else, I find the tone of recent
>emails concerning the mental state and/or other personal characteristics of
>people extremely distasteful and very unhelpful to foster dialogue, which I
>thought was one of the main objectives of the the multi-stakeholder model.
>
>Civil society's main strength lies in its diversity. In my view such
>diversity should be nurtured. I never believed in fake notions of
>"consensus", nor am I shy to express my or the European Commission's
>disagreement when need be; but one can do so, even quite strongly, focusing
>on the substance rather than other elements.
>
>Best,
>
>Andrea
>
>On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Nov 21, 2012 2:10 PM, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I fail to see how google selling email, collaboration etc services to
>> > telcos has anything to do with the free and open internet here.
>> >
>> > Remember something - even if google sells something to the telcos, the
>> > users are the telco's users, and the law that's followed will be the law
>> of
>> > whichever country those users are in, and the telco does business in.
>> >
>> > And as for asking whether parminder is crazy .. well, I will confess
>> that I
>> > don't quite have to ask myself that question at all.
>>
>> That is too emphatic an assertion. I would not agree with the idea that
>> Parminder is crazy. Parminder is sane, intelligent, calculative and his
>> responses to any thing said or done for the good of the Internet is
>> strategically constructed, sometimes incoherently, this again with a
>> calculated purpose.
>>
>> It requires a person of Parminder's distorted intelligence to come with a
>> response to something so good as Google's campaign to preserve the free and
>> open Internet.
>>
>> His strategy: "Don't find fault with the ideas expressed in the Google
>> campaign (because you can't). Find fault with Google (it is easier, and
>> definitely distracts attention away from the arguments presented to the
>> arguer, Google)". This is 'argumentum ad hominem'
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>>
>> Parminder is quite intelligent, but his liver, brain and heart are
>> contaminated by a misplaced passion for the ITU.
>>
>> Sivasubramanian M.
>>
>> >
>> > Riaz K Tayob [21/11/12 09:54 +0200]:
>> >
>> >> Are you crazy Parminder?
>> >>
>> >> Rule no. 1 The "free market" is always right
>> >>
>> >> Rule no. 2 If not, consult rule number 1.
>> >>
>> >> Rule no. 3 If you feel let down by rule no. 1 consult rule no. 2
>> >>
>> >> Apologies if this seems self-referential... but that is how it IS
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 2012/11/21 09:49 AM, parminder wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From Google's sign-on campaign
>> >>>
>> >>> “A free and open world depends on a free and open
>> >>> Internet. Governments alone, working behind closed doors,
>> >>> should not direct its future. The billions of people
>> >>> around the globe who use the Internet should have a voice.”
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://www.google.com/takeaction/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=112012freeandopen#make-your-voice-heard
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Dear Google; Yes, the world indeed needs an open Internet, for which
>> reason it is rather awful to note that you, meaning, Google;
>> >>>
>> >>> 1) Sold the entire net neutrality campaign down the drain in the US,
>> by first assuming its leadership and then entering into a self-serving
>> agreement with Verizon, whereby the main means of accessing the Internet in
>> the future - mobiles - are exempted from net neutrality provisions.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2) Have recently entered into exclusive arrangements with telecos to
>> provide Gmail, Google + and Google Search for free in some developing
>> countries (Philippines) , and as a special low cost package exclusively of
>> a few Internet services (and not the full, public Internet) in others
>> (India), which makes a mockery of an open and net neutral Internet.
>> >>>
>> >>> 3) Tweak your search results, which is increasingly the main way of
>> accessing locations on the Internet, in non-transparent ways, with
>> increasing evidence that this is done in a manner that merely serves your
>> own commercial interests and goes against consumer/ public interest, and
>> for which reasons Google is currently subject to regulatory investigations
>> in the US and EU.
>> >>>
>> >>> ( There are hundreds of other outrages, big and small, including the
>> fact that today I suddenly see my default browser getting set for "Chrome'
>> when I prefer and have always used Mozilla Firefox and never asked for the
>> change of default.)
>> >>>
>> >>> I cannot see anything other than effective regulation of the Internet
>> to be able to check such excesses by Internet companies that are deeply
>> compromising the openness of the Internet (sticking here to only to the
>> subject of openness of the Internet, used in above appeal by Google).
>> >>>
>> >>> So, lets be honest, it is not about people versus ITU, not even,
>> Google versus ITU, or even Google versus content regulation; it is Google
>> versus any regulation of the Internet space so that Google, and similarly
>> positioned dominant players, can have a free run over the economic, social
>> and political resources of the world.
>> >>>
>> >>> It is very important to wage the needed struggles to keep Internet's
>> content free from undue statist controls. But one needs to be careful about
>> whom one chooses as partners, nay, leaders of the campaign. Remember, the
>> lessons from the net neutrality campaign in the US which was sold cheap by
>> those who assumed its leadership. Also, have no doubt whatsoever that ACTAs
>> and PIPAs will come back in new forms, accommodating the interests of the
>> big Internet companies that led the opposition in the first round. (Anyone
>> wanting to take a bet on this! :) ) And. when the second round happens,
>> since 'our leaders' would have crossed over, there wouldnt be much fight
>> left to give.
>> >>>
>> >>> For sure, make opportunistic, tactical, alliances, but civil society
>> needs to be careful not to abandon leadership of public interest causes to
>> players who cannot but become turncoat and, well, betray, - sooner or later
>> getting into bed with whoever is economically and politically powerful
>> around to help their business prosper. Such is the structural logic of big
>> business. Let them stick to what they do best - organise productive forces
>> of the world. Leave public interest causes to public interest players -
>> civil society and governments. However, if the sentiment is simply
>> overflowing, maybe just donate some money to such causes, in an arms-
>> lenght /hands-off approach vis a vis managing the precise activities
>> involved. I simply dont fancy corporate-led 'public interest' campaigns.
>> >>>
>> >>> One was stuck by the number of Google organised panels at the Baku
>> IGF, where they openly took part and gave their policy pitch. As a
>> participant from Pakistan said at a workshop ' I find a Google
>> representative at every panel that I am at'. Such brash presence at policy
>> forums and taking strong policy positions by corporates is a relatively new
>> game, and to my mind not a welcome thing for our democracies. I keep hoping
>> that civil society would give this phenomenon a deeper thought and
>> analysis, rather than just riding the bandwagon.
>> >>>
>> >>> parminder
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 04:47 AM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Just saw Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website
>> >>>>
>> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/en/takeaction/
>> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/fr/takeaction/
>> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/es/takeaction/
>> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/ar/takeaction/
>> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/zh-CN/takeaction/
>> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/pt-BR/takeaction/
>> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/ru/takeaction/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> (thanks to a colleague for sharing!)
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
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>
>
>--
>
>--
>I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep it
>in mind.
>Twitter: @andreaglorioso
>Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/andrea.glorioso
>LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=1749288&trk=tab_pro
>____________________________________________________________
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