[governance] Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website
Andrea Glorioso
andrea at digitalpolicy.it
Wed Nov 21 10:06:50 EST 2012
I do not often intervene in this mailing list, although I follow it with
great attention.
But I must say that independently from any substantive opinion one might
have on Google, the ITU, WCIT or anything else, I find the tone of recent
emails concerning the mental state and/or other personal characteristics of
people extremely distasteful and very unhelpful to foster dialogue, which I
thought was one of the main objectives of the the multi-stakeholder model.
Civil society's main strength lies in its diversity. In my view such
diversity should be nurtured. I never believed in fake notions of
"consensus", nor am I shy to express my or the European Commission's
disagreement when need be; but one can do so, even quite strongly, focusing
on the substance rather than other elements.
Best,
Andrea
On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Sivasubramanian M <isolatedn at gmail.com>wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2012 2:10 PM, "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <suresh at hserus.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > I fail to see how google selling email, collaboration etc services to
> > telcos has anything to do with the free and open internet here.
> >
> > Remember something - even if google sells something to the telcos, the
> > users are the telco's users, and the law that's followed will be the law
> of
> > whichever country those users are in, and the telco does business in.
> >
> > And as for asking whether parminder is crazy .. well, I will confess
> that I
> > don't quite have to ask myself that question at all.
>
> That is too emphatic an assertion. I would not agree with the idea that
> Parminder is crazy. Parminder is sane, intelligent, calculative and his
> responses to any thing said or done for the good of the Internet is
> strategically constructed, sometimes incoherently, this again with a
> calculated purpose.
>
> It requires a person of Parminder's distorted intelligence to come with a
> response to something so good as Google's campaign to preserve the free and
> open Internet.
>
> His strategy: "Don't find fault with the ideas expressed in the Google
> campaign (because you can't). Find fault with Google (it is easier, and
> definitely distracts attention away from the arguments presented to the
> arguer, Google)". This is 'argumentum ad hominem'
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
>
> Parminder is quite intelligent, but his liver, brain and heart are
> contaminated by a misplaced passion for the ITU.
>
> Sivasubramanian M.
>
> >
> > Riaz K Tayob [21/11/12 09:54 +0200]:
> >
> >> Are you crazy Parminder?
> >>
> >> Rule no. 1 The "free market" is always right
> >>
> >> Rule no. 2 If not, consult rule number 1.
> >>
> >> Rule no. 3 If you feel let down by rule no. 1 consult rule no. 2
> >>
> >> Apologies if this seems self-referential... but that is how it IS
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2012/11/21 09:49 AM, parminder wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From Google's sign-on campaign
> >>>
> >>> “A free and open world depends on a free and open
> >>> Internet. Governments alone, working behind closed doors,
> >>> should not direct its future. The billions of people
> >>> around the globe who use the Internet should have a voice.”
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.google.com/takeaction/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=112012freeandopen#make-your-voice-heard
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dear Google; Yes, the world indeed needs an open Internet, for which
> reason it is rather awful to note that you, meaning, Google;
> >>>
> >>> 1) Sold the entire net neutrality campaign down the drain in the US,
> by first assuming its leadership and then entering into a self-serving
> agreement with Verizon, whereby the main means of accessing the Internet in
> the future - mobiles - are exempted from net neutrality provisions.
> >>>
> >>> 2) Have recently entered into exclusive arrangements with telecos to
> provide Gmail, Google + and Google Search for free in some developing
> countries (Philippines) , and as a special low cost package exclusively of
> a few Internet services (and not the full, public Internet) in others
> (India), which makes a mockery of an open and net neutral Internet.
> >>>
> >>> 3) Tweak your search results, which is increasingly the main way of
> accessing locations on the Internet, in non-transparent ways, with
> increasing evidence that this is done in a manner that merely serves your
> own commercial interests and goes against consumer/ public interest, and
> for which reasons Google is currently subject to regulatory investigations
> in the US and EU.
> >>>
> >>> ( There are hundreds of other outrages, big and small, including the
> fact that today I suddenly see my default browser getting set for "Chrome'
> when I prefer and have always used Mozilla Firefox and never asked for the
> change of default.)
> >>>
> >>> I cannot see anything other than effective regulation of the Internet
> to be able to check such excesses by Internet companies that are deeply
> compromising the openness of the Internet (sticking here to only to the
> subject of openness of the Internet, used in above appeal by Google).
> >>>
> >>> So, lets be honest, it is not about people versus ITU, not even,
> Google versus ITU, or even Google versus content regulation; it is Google
> versus any regulation of the Internet space so that Google, and similarly
> positioned dominant players, can have a free run over the economic, social
> and political resources of the world.
> >>>
> >>> It is very important to wage the needed struggles to keep Internet's
> content free from undue statist controls. But one needs to be careful about
> whom one chooses as partners, nay, leaders of the campaign. Remember, the
> lessons from the net neutrality campaign in the US which was sold cheap by
> those who assumed its leadership. Also, have no doubt whatsoever that ACTAs
> and PIPAs will come back in new forms, accommodating the interests of the
> big Internet companies that led the opposition in the first round. (Anyone
> wanting to take a bet on this! :) ) And. when the second round happens,
> since 'our leaders' would have crossed over, there wouldnt be much fight
> left to give.
> >>>
> >>> For sure, make opportunistic, tactical, alliances, but civil society
> needs to be careful not to abandon leadership of public interest causes to
> players who cannot but become turncoat and, well, betray, - sooner or later
> getting into bed with whoever is economically and politically powerful
> around to help their business prosper. Such is the structural logic of big
> business. Let them stick to what they do best - organise productive forces
> of the world. Leave public interest causes to public interest players -
> civil society and governments. However, if the sentiment is simply
> overflowing, maybe just donate some money to such causes, in an arms-
> lenght /hands-off approach vis a vis managing the precise activities
> involved. I simply dont fancy corporate-led 'public interest' campaigns.
> >>>
> >>> One was stuck by the number of Google organised panels at the Baku
> IGF, where they openly took part and gave their policy pitch. As a
> participant from Pakistan said at a workshop ' I find a Google
> representative at every panel that I am at'. Such brash presence at policy
> forums and taking strong policy positions by corporates is a relatively new
> game, and to my mind not a welcome thing for our democracies. I keep hoping
> that civil society would give this phenomenon a deeper thought and
> analysis, rather than just riding the bandwagon.
> >>>
> >>> parminder
> >>>
> >>> On Wednesday 21 November 2012 04:47 AM, Fouad Bajwa wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Just saw Google's Fight the ITU/WCIT website
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/en/takeaction/
> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/fr/takeaction/
> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/es/takeaction/
> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/ar/takeaction/
> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/zh-CN/takeaction/
> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/pt-BR/takeaction/
> >>>> https://www.google.com/intl/ru/takeaction/
> >>>>
> >>>> (thanks to a colleague for sharing!)
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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--
--
I speak only for myself. Sometimes I do not even agree with myself. Keep it
in mind.
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