IETF WAS Re: [governance] Enhanced Cooperation (was Re: reality check on economics)

[Riaz K Tayob]

Thanks.

Not sure what "Recipients are expected to actively participate in and 
contribute to ICANN processes, both at the meeting and in the future." 
means though...

But lets see...

On 2012/05/29 01:47 PM, Adam Peake wrote:
> Riaz, hi.
>
> Copied from another list:
>
>> ICANN's Fellowship programme has now opened
>> for applications for travel funding to the Toronto
>> meeting:<http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-23may12-en.htm>
>> Applications are welcome until 8 July.
>>
> Try it?  Though fellowships tend to slightly favor applicants from the
> region where the meeting's being held.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 6:22 PM, Riaz K Tayob<riaz.tayob at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Guru
>>
>> The questions you pose are important and not adequately addressed under this
>> header, especially as regards principled positions. There is adequate
>> attention paid to reform (which is essentially about "effectiveness") but
>> less about principled (or dare I say it on this list "radical") positions.
>> International law, or governance, is both about effectiveness AND
>> legitimacy. Without this parallax view, these discussions become mired in
>> convolutions as the subject matter (and/or goal) is not clearly articulated
>> - i.e. terrain specificity.
>>
>> It is NOT possible to argue or intimate that ICANN is legitimate, even
>> though some try to do so. It may be effective, like IETF, but legitimacy
>> will always be elusive, given current arrangements. Inadequacies abound
>> about the lack of legitimacy, gTlds, intellectual property and also the
>> thwarting of the will of many poor countries to have some legitimate control
>> over CIR. Unless one has ideological (or pay check) blinkers this ought to
>> be a moot point. For many on this list, it is not, and will not in the
>> foreseeable future.
>>
>> On reform, there are many avenues to follow, often dictated by the realm of
>> possibility that is severely constrained given current predilections. And
>> more attention needs to be given to these elements from a principled stance
>> as Gurstein has ventured. What I would really like to hear more about is the
>> problem of marrying the technical with the non-technical as there is a
>> dialectical relationship between the two (tech is tech, but tech is also law
>> as Lessig puts it). But the debate would need to move away from the
>> pedestrian one, "if it aint broke don't fix it" or "where is your
>> alternative" as if these cannot be created, as if ICANN et al have not
>> reinvented themselves to make themselves seem more legitimate dolling out
>> dosh and following the Iraq&  Afghanistan pacification strategy post
>> invasion.
>>
>> There are improvements that need to be made, but I am not sure the
>> imagination has been sufficiently decolonised (in general) to even pursue
>> some of the inquiries you pose and perhaps some more reality is needed on
>> these matters...
>>
>>
>> On 2012/05/25 04:26 AM, Guru गुरु wrote:
>>
>>
>>    ask ourselves how we can make the current IG more democratic.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Who pays the price for the current IG regimes and lack of its accountability
>> to the "global society"? Conversely, who does it benefit disproportionately?
>>
>>
>>
>>
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