[governance] A false consensus is broken

[Adam Peake]

On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 12:13 AM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
> Or Parminder used/quoted colourful journalistic language in a journalistic medium...
>

Oh come on.  Parminder influenced by some US journalist.  Are you
saying he's a lazy and hypocrite?


> Anyway, why this pre-occupation with one perhaps infelicitous turn of (journalistic/diplomatic?) phrase ...


Because it's not true, and anyone who has been on this list and/or
read one or two news articles would know it's not true. Or, someone
could go to the transcripts of the meeting and it would be perfectly
clear.   Parminder makes the claim throughout the article, so hardly
an accident.  As we know from his usual bile against anything
"northern", it looks pretty deliberate.

This is an OpEd in a major newspaper.  The Indian government said they
will hold a public consultation about the outcome of WICT and whether
the country should sign etc.  Clearly it's in this context Parminder's
writing.  So yes, the rubbish does need to be pointed out to be
rubbish.


>
 Is this the US Congress/Fox News where a fairly comprehensible
mispeak can lead to a total "gothcha" pre-occupation (the Benghazi
"discussions") for purely political purposes to the exclusion of
substantive debate...
>


Then respond to criticism of support for extending state rights (also
misleadingly presented in the OpEd.)

Adam



> M
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: apeake at gmail.com [mailto:apeake at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Adam Peake
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 6:55 AM
> To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; michael gurstein
> Subject: Re: [governance] A false consensus is broken
>
> Come on Michael, many of those are links to the same story!
>
> The facts are no country walked out, do you agree?  So which is it:
> Parminder is not telling the truth?  Parminder does not know what he's writing about?
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 10:56 PM, michael gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hmmmm (for those of us who weren't in Dubai
>>
>>
>>
>> Search Results Google: US Walkout WCIT
>>
>>
>>
>> About 25,300 results (0.48 seconds)
>>
>>
>>
>>     WCIT Treaty Talks End in Dubai With Walkout of U.S., Allies
>>
>>     www.eweek.com/.../wcit-treaty-talks-end-in-dubai-wi...
>>
>>
>>
>>     Wayne Rash
>>
>>
>>
>>     by Wayne Rash - in 447 Google+ circles
>>
>>     5 days ago – The U.S. delegation objects to the inclusion of any
>> terms relating to Internet governance in the proposed World Conference
>> on International ...
>>
>>     Page 2 - WCIT Treaty Talks End in Dubai With Walkout of U.S.,
>> Allies
>>
>>     www.eweek.com/.../wcit-treaty-talks-end-iin-dubai-with-walko...
>>
>>     by Wayne Rash - in 447 Google+ circles
>>
>>     5 days ago – The U.S. delegation objects to the inclusion of any
>> terms relating to Internet governance in the proposed World Conference
>> on International ...
>>
>>     WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of ... - ThunderFeeds
>>
>>     thunderfeeds.com/.../wcit-treaty-talks-end-iin-dubai-with-walk...
>>
>>     5 days ago – The U.S. delegation objects to the inclusion of any
>> terms relating to Internet governance in the proposed World Conference
>> on International ...
>>
>>     eCnet Solutions – WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of ...
>>
>>     ecnetsolutions.com/wcit-treaty-talks-end-iin-dubai-with-walko...
>>
>>     WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of U.S., Allies.
>> December 15, 2012 | 0 comment | in Latest News | by ...
>>
>>     US threatens to walk out of WCIT
>>
>>     www.commsday.com/commsday-australasia/4002
>>
>>     10 Dec 2012 – Head of the American delegation to the World
>> Conference on International Telecommunications, Ambassador Terry
>> Kramer, has promised to ...
>>
>>     Ambassador Kramer: Reports of WCIT Walkout Threat Untrue - 2012 ...
>>
>>     www.broadcastingcable.com/.../490775-Ambassador_Kramer...
>>
>>     10 Dec 2012 – Ambassador Kramer: Reports of WCIT Walkout Threat
>> Untrue ... Ambassador Terry Kramer, head of the U.S. delegation to the
>> ITU WCIT-12 ...
>>
>>     WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of U.S., Allies ...
>>
>>     www.fundamentaltp.com/index/?p=4135
>>
>>     5 days ago – NEWS ANALYSIS: The U.S. delegation objects to the
>> inclusion of any terms relating to Internet governance in the proposed
>> World Conference ...
>>
>>     WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of US, Allies - eWeek
>>
>>     eweek.floost.com/.../post-wcit-treaty-talks-end-iin-dubai-with-...
>>
>>     The U.S. delegation objects to the inclusion of any terms relating
>> to Internet governance in the proposed World Conference on
>> International Telecommu.
>>
>>     Preditable WCIT Outcome Sees US Lead Objections To ITU's ...
>>
>>     www.domainpulse.com/.../preditable-wcit-outcome-sees-us-lea...
>>
>>     14 Dec 2012 – But the US led a walkout of delegates from mostly
>> western countries at ... day World Conference on International
>> Telecommunications
>> (WCIT) in ...
>>
>>     favicon WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of US, Allies
>>
>>     technewstube.com/.../wcit-treaty-talks-end-iin-dubai-with-walk...
>>
>>     5 days ago – eWeek writes, The U.S. delegation objects to the
>> inclusion of any terms relating to Internet governance in the proposed
>> World Conference on ...
>>
>>     WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of U.S., Allies -
>> newsR
>>
>>     newsr.in › Computer Industry
>>
>>     5 days ago – WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of U.S.,
>> Allies ♢ The U.S. delegation objects to the inclusion of any terms
>> relating to Internet ...
>>
>>     The Hindu : Opinion / Lead : A false consensus is broken
>>
>>     www.thehindu.com › Opinion › Lead
>>
>>     17 hours ago – The United States's decision to walk out of the
>> International ... on International Telecommunications (WCIT) in Dubai
>> along with some of its ...
>>
>>     News: WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of U.S., Allies
>>
>>     en.zicos.com/.../i28368653-WCIT-Treaty-Talks-End-iin-Duba...
>>
>>     5 days ago – The U.S. delegation objects to the inclusion of any
>> terms relating to Internet governance in the proposed World Conference
>> on International ...
>>
>>     Ambassador Kramer: Reports of WCIT Walkout Threat Untrue ...
>>
>>     benton.org/node/141277
>>
>>     10 Dec 2012 – Ambassador Terry Kramer, head of the U.S. delegation
>> to the World ... Ambassador Kramer: Reports of WCIT Walkout Threat Untrue ...
>>
>>     Corrected: India Doesn't Sign The New ITR At WCIT; 80 Countries ...
>>
>>     www.medianama.com/.../223-india-signs-the-new-itr-at-... - India
>>
>>     14 Dec 2012 – Ambassador Terry Kramer who is heading the American
>> delegation to the WCIT had already threatened to walk out of the
>> conference, if the ...
>>
>>     WCIT talks on Internet governance deadlocked - Total Telecom
>>
>>     www.totaltele.com › mobility
>>
>>     7 Dec 2012 – U.S. delegation threatens to walk out of Dubai
>> conference; accuses some nations of trying to ... WCIT talks on
>> Internet governance deadlocked ...
>>
>>     WCIT collapses: US, UK, allies refuse to sign treaty after Africa
>> wins ...
>>
>>     www.commsday.com/.../wcit-collapses-us-uk-allies-refuse-to-s...
>>
>>     14 Dec 2012 – WCIT collapses: US, UK, allies refuse to sign treaty
>> after Africa wins floor vote. Posted on: Friday .... this banner. US
>> threatens to walk out of WCIT.
>>
>>     WCIT bombshell: Russia withdraws Internet regulation push ...
>>
>>     www.aficta.org/.../150-wcit-bombshell-russia-withdraws-intern...
>>
>>     WCIT bombshell: Russia withdraws Internet regulation push,
>> apparently under ... The alternative was a walkout by the US
>> delegation and potentially some of its ...
>>
>>     WCIT: Message, if Murky, From U.S. to the World - Governance
>>
>>     www.goldsteinreport.com/article.php?article=19458
>>
>>     6 days ago – WCIT: Message, if Murky, From U.S. to the World ...
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/technology/in-a-huff-a-telling-us-walkout.html.
>> Also see: ...
>>
>>     WCIT Treaty Talks End in Dubai With Walkout of U.S., Allies ...
>>
>>     ecbasis.com/.../wcit-treaty-talks-end-in-dubai-with-walkout-of-...
>>
>>     5 days ago – NEWS ANALYSIS: The U.S. delegation objects to the
>> inclusion of any terms relating to Internet governance in the proposed
>> World Conference ...
>>
>>     WCIT WATCH: Analysis of the new ITRs Part II - Blog | Access
>>
>>     https://www.accessnow.org/.../wcit-watch-analysis-of-the-new-...
>>
>>     6 days ago – WCIT WATCH: Analysis of the new ITRs Part II ....
>> painting the push to reject the ITRs as a US-led, developed countries
>> walkout, it's worth noting ...
>>
>>     Report: U.S. Threatens To Walk Out Of U.N. Internet Conference ...
>>
>>     livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/.../report-us-threate...
>>
>>
>>
>>     Carl Franzen
>>
>>
>>
>>     by Carl Franzen - in 131 Google+ circles
>>
>>     10 Dec 2012 – Updated 12:22 p.m. EST, Monday, December 10 The U.S. ...
>> that the reports the U.S. was threatening to walk-out or withdraw from
>> the
>> WCIT-12 ...
>>
>>     US to Walk out of ITU Meeting? - Wired State
>>
>>     3dblogger.typepad.com/.../us-to-walk-out-of-itu-meeting.html
>>
>>     10 Dec 2012 – So the US is threatening to walk out of the WCIT,
>> the meeting of the ITU (International Telecommunications Union, which
>> aspires to run the ...
>>
>>     How the WCIT Should Have Been Worked So That the US Could ...
>>
>>     3dblogger.typepad.com/.../how-the-wcit-should-have-been-w...
>>
>>     5 hours ago – After threatening the walk out and simply not
>> participate in a highly flawed ... How the WCIT Should Have Been
>> Worked So That the US Could ...
>>
>>     WCIT Conference in Dubai Threatens Internet Freedom
>>
>>     macjordangh.com/wcit-conference-in-dubai-threatens-internet...
>>
>>     14 Dec 2012 – WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of
>> U.S., Allies (eweek.com); The highlights and low points of WCIT
>> (news.dot-nxt.com) ...
>>
>>     The Internet doesn't need the ITU's help, says Vint Cerf - Techworld ...
>>
>>     news.techworld.com › News
>>
>>     6 days ago – The U.S. representative for WCIT had threatened to
>> walk out of the meeting as a result. The Russian proposal was shelved,
>> though other ...
>>
>>     Vint Cerf: The Internet doesn't need the ITU's help | Networking ...
>>
>>     www.infoworld.com › Networking › News
>>
>>     13 Dec 2012 – The U.S. representative for WCIT had threatened to
>> walk out of the meeting as a result. The Russian proposal was shelved,
>> though other ...
>>
>>     WCIT-12 revises international telecommunications treaty without US ...
>>
>>     thunderfeeds.com/.../wcit12-revises-international-telecommuni...
>>
>>     3 days ago – WCIT Treaty Talks End iin Dubai With Walkout of U.S.,
>> Allies · eWEEK (2 days ago) - The U.S. delegation objects to the
>> inclusion of any terms ...
>>
>>     Twitter / Search - #wcit
>>
>>     https://twitter.com/search?q=%23wcit
>>
>>     Message, if murky, from U.S. to the world
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/technology/in-a-huff-a-telling-us-w
>> alkout.html
>> … - NYT analysis of the #WCIT ...
>>
>>     Ambassador Kramer: Reports of WCIT Walkout Threat Untrue ...
>>
>>     internetsecuritynews.com/.../ambassador-kramer-reports-of-wc...
>>
>>     10 Dec 2012 – IEEE SpectrumAmbassador Kramer: Reports of WCIT
>> Walkout ... on the issues that the U.S. has suggested were
>> nonnegotiable from its side, ...
>>
>>     WCIT Developments — Russian Proposals Withdrawn | Prepper ...
>>
>>     www.prepperpodcast.com/wcit-developments-russian-proposal...
>>
>>     13 Dec 2012 – WCIT 2012 (Photo credit: itupictures) ... advanced
>> by the Russian delegation, have been withdrawn, possibly under threat
>> of a US walkout.
>>
>>     US prepared to walk out of ITU talks over internet regulation - 10 ...
>>
>>     www.computing.co.uk › News › Communications › Telecoms
>>
>>     10 Dec 2012 – The US is prepared to "press the nuclear button" and
>> walk out of talks in ... Technology (WCIT), the head of the American
>> delegation, Terry ...
>>
>>     Ambassador Kramer: Reports of WCIT Walkout Threat Untrue - I4U ...
>>
>>     www.i4u.com/.../reports-wcit-walkout-ambassado... - United States
>>
>>     Ambassador Terry Kramer, head of the U.S. delegation to the ITU
>> WCIT-12 telecom treaty ... Report: U.S. Threatens To Walk Out Of U.N.
>> Internet Conference ...
>>
>>     The UN Fought The Internet — And The Internet Won; WCIT Summit ...
>>
>>     www.internationalorganizationsdesk.com/fought-internet-inter...
>>
>>     11 Dec 2012 – Ambassador Kramer: Reports of WCIT Walkout Threat Untrue.
>> Dec 11, 2012 | benton.org. Ambassador Terry Kramer, head of the U.S. ...
>>
>>     The Internet Battle Initiated: The UN ITC Dubai WCIT Conference ...
>>
>>     www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread904894/pg2
>>
>>     8 Dec 2012 – WCIT talks on Internet governance deadlocked ... Mr.
>> Kramer said the U.S. is prepared to walk out of the event and refuse
>> to sign the treaty if ...
>>
>>     Russia, China withdraw controversial proposal at treaty conference ...
>>
>>     computerworld.co.nz/.../russia-china-withdraw-controversial-p...
>>
>>     12 Dec 2012 – Earlier on Monday, Terry Kramer, head of the US
>> delegation to the WCIT denied news reports that his country had
>> threatened to walk out out of ...
>>
>>     WCIT is Over. Who Won? Nobody Knows. | Benton Foundation
>>
>>     benton.org/node/141776
>>
>>     6 days ago – “The 'good guys' (the US, and its allies including
>> Canada and the UK) ... to Do · Ambassador Kramer: Reports of WCIT
>> Walkout Threat Untrue ...
>>
>>     Twitter / InfernoJourno: Great article about #WCIT : ...
>>
>>     twitter.com/InfernoJourno/statuses/279418697079205888
>>
>>     13 Dec 2012 – ... ‏@InfernoJourno 13 Dec. Great article about
>> #WCIT : UN Telecom Treaty Approved Against US Web-Censorship Concerns
>> - US walk out on ...
>>
>>     US denies threatening to walk out of Internet governance talks ...
>>
>>     www.itproportal.com › 2012 › December › 10
>>
>>     10 Dec 2012 – Ambassador Terry Kramer, lead representative for the
>> US at the World Conference on International ... Tags: itu wcit terry
>> kramer walkout us ...
>>
>>     WCIT: Internet Governance deadlock..Delegasi AS walkout ... - Yahoo!
>>
>>     tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/APWKomitel/message/54848Share
>>
>>     8 Dec 2012 – WCIT: Internet Governance deadlock. ... U.S.
>> delegation threatens to walk out of Dubai conference; accuses some
>> nations of trying to bring in ...
>>
>>     WCIT ends but the Internet fight-club will continue -
>> TelecomTV.com
>>
>>     www.telecomtv.com/go/?ct=1&cid=49781&id...
>>
>>     6 days ago – The ITU's WCIT has ended as expected with a crucial
>> minority of ... That news is expected later today, but U.S., U.K.,
>> Canada, Poland, ... threats to walk out, compromise texts and so on,
>> flying about right up to the last moment.
>>
>>     Russia, China withdraw controversial proposal to have ITU control ...
>>
>>     www.cio.co.ke › News › Main stories
>>
>>     11 Dec 2012 – Earlier on Monday, Terry Kramer, head of the U.S.
>> delegation to the WCIT denied news reports that his country had
>> threatened to walk out out ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> But I guess you had to have been there...
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Avri Doria
>> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 3:41 AM
>> To: IGC
>> Subject: Re: [governance] A false consensus is broken
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21 Dec 2012, at 04:47, parminder wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> The United States’s decision to walk out of the International
>>> Telecommunication Union’s World Conference on International
>>> Telecommunications (WCIT) in Dubai along with some of its allies last
>>> week could represent a turning point in global Internet governance.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No one walked out.
>>
>>
>>
>> avri
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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