[governance] Blogpost: (Whose) Hand off (What) Internet? Some Reflections on WCIT 2012
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Thu Dec 13 03:31:47 EST 2012
On Thursday 13 December 2012 12:50 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
> Parminder,
>
> thanks for your suggestions for my choice of words. Rest assured that I'll grant them the same attention as always.
>
> I do apologize for testing irony on you and failing. I'll be subject-verb-complement, facts-only next time.
Thanks Alex for your kind consideration. English was the third language
that I learnt, and begun speaking only very late in life. I guess most
of my brain was already taken by that time :). The fact is that I do
often miss your ironies. I know, my fault entirely.
parminder
>
> I won't interfere with your endeavours to get corporations taxed. Good luck with the letter.
>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
> ! !! !!! !!!!
> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>
>
>
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>
> SMS +525541444475
> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> ________________________________________
> Desde: parminder [parminder at itforchange.net]
> Enviado el: jueves, 13 de diciembre de 2012 00:19
> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch
> Asunto: Re: [governance] Blogpost: (Whose) Hand off (What) Internet? Some Reflections on WCIT 2012
>
> On Thursday 13 December 2012 11:25 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
>> David,
>>
>> I owed you a reply here.
>>
>> Some subset of what Mike Gurstein in facile way characterizes as HOI not only has a vision of how to build Intenet Governance - they are voting with their sweat.
> Alex, perhaps you may not want to use the 'sweat' analogy; you may be
> very surprised by what those who really 'sweat' may vote for !
>
>> They are building the mechanisms, agreements, communications, understandings, actions and discourse.
>>
>> These days some of that set are providing delegates at WCIT with constant feedback,
> BTW, It seems your sweating group seems to have a lot of money for
> global travel unlike other (real) sweat-ers.
>
>> technical knowledge, policy arguments, and personal networks in order to avert some of the worst-case results of that conference. Some in Dubai, some away, but that materialization of a vision of Internet Governance is actually consuming some kiloJoules and having some demonstrable, traceable effect.
>>
>> Guess they may be forgiven
> No, they cant be forgiven for not taking up issues of global economic
> and social justice on board. That is what we are here for. Not to
> forgive them, and to remind them constantly.
>> for not trying to become the world's tax-collector-spanking authority. We leave that to the real experts on this list, impressed by the fiscal knowledge and the rapid setup of an army.
> Alas! Can hardly match the army that google and cohorts set up around
> WCIT... and also at other global IG spaces. After all money (and not
> sweat) counts!
>> Please be the first in line to tap the flow of funds into the coffers. Oh, and lay aside the "no taxation without representation" line while you bleed Google white.
> Well, This one I dont understand at all. You mean developing countries
> cannot tax bec they are not represented in Google, or what? Or perhaps
> with 'representation' you mean something else now a days - that we
> havent done the necessary work/ sweat?? I completely miss it. Sorry. But
> you can explain.
>
> parminder
>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>> ! !! !!! !!!!
>> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>>
>>
>>
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>>
>> SMS +525541444475
>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de David Allen [David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu]
>> Enviado el: lunes, 10 de diciembre de 2012 10:51
>> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> Asunto: Re: [governance] Blogpost: (Whose) Hand off (What) Internet? Some Reflections on WCIT 2012
>>
>> I am afraid I see it differently, from my esteemed friend Dr.
>> Pisanty. (All the while I have enjoyed the elegance of construction,
>> in his response!)
>>
>> As Michael has now excerpted:
>>
>>> ... the "Hands off the Internet" folks don't go beyond the negative
>>> into some positive vision/declaration of where/how they think the
>>> Internet should be "governed" (beyond an untenable status quo) ...
>> Which has led to stalemate, such as with both Tunis follow-ons, IGF
>> and Enhanced Cooperation. With stalemate cropping up once again, here
>> with Dubai.
>>
>> There has been repeated talk, over the years, of new global regimes,
>> beyond states, grandly centered on multi-stakeholderism. But no
>> reality - no practicable formulation that preserves democracy - to
>> that talk.
>>
>> That is serious work. Jeremy began to suggest some thoughts forward
>>
>>> We all hate hierarchy, but sometimes a little bit of structure is
>>> necessary to provide firm enough guidance to policymakers
>> in the thread, Multi-stakeholder model, evolution and revolution.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2012, at 7:02 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>> as the great physicist Wolfgang Pauli is often quoted to have said,
>>> "it isn't even wrong."
>>>
>>> Your article mostly creates a hybrid of red herring, strawman and
>>> bogeyman and misses the group, often identified in this list, which
>>> does not say "hands off the Internet", is not acting by reflex, is
>>> not being driven by the corporate interests you profer to dislike,
>>> and therefore makes nuanced, rational analysis and action difficult.
>>>
>>> There are serious concerns about what is going on in the ITU's WCIT,
>>> serious people trying to address them in a serious way. That they
>>> some may find their allies uncomfortable does not fit in your text.
>>> Your text becomes little more than a distraction.
>>>
>>> From such a flawed premise, little of use can be concluded. As I
>>> said, it isn't even wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>>
>>> ! !! !!! !!!!
>>> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>>
>>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>>>
>>> SMS +525541444475
>>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>>
>>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> ] en nombre de michael gurstein [gurstein at gmail.com]
>>> Enviado el: domingo, 09 de diciembre de 2012 15:30
>>> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>>> Asunto: [governance] Blogpost: (Whose) Hand off (What) Internet?
>>> Some Reflections on WCIT 2012
>>>
>>> FWIW
>>>
>>> http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/whose-hand-off-what-internet-some-reflections-on-wcit-2012/
>>>
>>> MG
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
>
>
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