[governance] Blogpost: (Whose) Hand off (What) Internet? Some Reflections on WCIT 2012

parminder parminder at itforchange.net
Thu Dec 13 01:19:48 EST 2012 

On Thursday 13 December 2012 11:25 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
> David,
>
> I owed you a reply here.
>
> Some subset of what Mike Gurstein in facile way characterizes as HOI not only has a vision of how to build Intenet Governance - they are voting with their sweat.

Alex, perhaps you may not want to use the 'sweat' analogy; you may be 
very surprised by what those who really 'sweat' may vote for !

> They are building the mechanisms, agreements, communications, understandings, actions and discourse.
>
> These days some of that set are providing delegates at WCIT with constant feedback,
BTW, It seems your sweating group seems to have a lot of money for 
global travel unlike other (real) sweat-ers.

> technical knowledge, policy arguments, and personal networks in order to avert some of the worst-case results of that conference. Some in Dubai, some away, but that materialization of a vision of Internet Governance is actually consuming some kiloJoules and having some demonstrable, traceable effect.
>
> Guess they may be forgiven

No, they cant be forgiven for not taking up issues of global economic 
and social justice on board. That is what we are here for. Not to 
forgive them, and to remind them constantly.
> for not trying to become the world's tax-collector-spanking authority. We leave that to the real experts on this list, impressed by the fiscal knowledge and the rapid setup of an army.

Alas! Can hardly match the army that google and cohorts set up around 
WCIT... and also at other global IG spaces. After all money (and not 
sweat) counts!
> Please be the first in line to tap the flow of funds into the coffers. Oh, and lay aside the "no taxation without representation" line while you bleed Google white.

Well, This one I dont understand at all. You mean developing countries 
cannot tax bec they are not represented in Google, or what? Or perhaps 
with 'representation' you mean something else now a days - that we 
havent done the necessary work/ sweat?? I completely miss it. Sorry. But 
you can explain.

parminder

>
> Yours,
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
> ! !! !!! !!!!
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>
>
>
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>
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>       Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
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> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>
> ________________________________________
> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] en nombre de David Allen [David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu]
> Enviado el: lunes, 10 de diciembre de 2012 10:51
> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
> Asunto: Re: [governance] Blogpost: (Whose) Hand off (What) Internet? Some Reflections on WCIT 2012
>
> I am afraid I see it differently, from my esteemed friend Dr.
> Pisanty.  (All the while I have enjoyed the elegance of construction,
> in his response!)
>
> As Michael has now excerpted:
>
>> ... the "Hands off the Internet" folks don't go beyond the negative
>> into some positive vision/declaration of where/how they think the
>> Internet should be "governed" (beyond an untenable status quo) ...
>
> Which has led to stalemate, such as with both Tunis follow-ons, IGF
> and Enhanced Cooperation.  With stalemate cropping up once again, here
> with Dubai.
>
> There has been repeated talk, over the years, of new global regimes,
> beyond states, grandly centered on multi-stakeholderism.  But no
> reality - no practicable formulation that preserves democracy - to
> that talk.
>
> That is serious work.  Jeremy began to suggest some thoughts forward
>
>> We all hate hierarchy, but sometimes a little bit of structure is
>> necessary to provide firm enough guidance to policymakers
>
> in the thread, Multi-stakeholder model, evolution and revolution.
>
> David
>
> On Dec 9, 2012, at 7:02 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>>
>> as the great physicist Wolfgang Pauli is often quoted to have said,
>> "it isn't even wrong."
>>
>> Your article mostly creates a hybrid of red herring, strawman and
>> bogeyman and misses the group, often identified in this list, which
>> does not say "hands off the Internet", is not acting by reflex, is
>> not being driven by the corporate interests you profer to dislike,
>> and therefore makes nuanced, rational analysis and action difficult.
>>
>> There are serious concerns about what is going on in the ITU's WCIT,
>> serious people trying to address them in a serious way. That they
>> some may find their allies uncomfortable does not fit in your text.
>> Your text becomes little more than a distraction.
>>
>>  From such a flawed premise, little of use can be concluded. As I
>> said, it isn't even wrong.
>>
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>> ! !! !!! !!!!
>> NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
>>
>>
>>
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>>
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
>>
>> SMS +525541444475
>>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>>
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
>> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
>> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
>> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> Desde: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
>> ] en nombre de michael gurstein [gurstein at gmail.com]
>> Enviado el: domingo, 09 de diciembre de 2012 15:30
>> Hasta: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
>> Asunto: [governance] Blogpost: (Whose) Hand off (What) Internet?
>> Some Reflections on WCIT 2012
>>
>> FWIW
>>
>> http://gurstein.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/whose-hand-off-what-internet-some-reflections-on-wcit-2012/
>>
>> MG
>>
>>
>>
>>
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