[governance] Internetistan, or the Bit Boat... a new approach to Internet governance!

Suresh Ramasubramanian suresh at hserus.net
Wed Dec 12 10:18:04 EST 2012 

Parminder - not "in transit" as such (which would be in international waters).  That ship was In the country's waters and in fact docked at a port in the country. So while it is rather bad form - and not as far as I can see OECD policy, but an individual decision by a country to exercise its jurisdiction in this manner .. I can't see where they lack jurisdiction to do this.

If for example there was a murder or theft or whatever on board the ship when it was docked in port, even though neither the victim nor the criminal were to have left the ship .. what do you think?

--srs (iPad)

On 12-Dec-2012, at 20:37, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:

> 
> On Wednesday 12 December 2012 07:24 PM, Michael Kende wrote:
>> Hello Bertrand and Nick,
>>  <snip_
>> The question then is whether this principle of non-tampering with transit traffic holds for traffic that may be stored in the country, even if it was filtered along with other international content before being viewed by citizens of the country where it was hosted. 
> 
> Michael
> 
> You may know that third party cargo in transit is being impounded in OECD countries for IP violation when the stuff is made on one country and headed for another, and has nothing to do with the impounding jurisdiction. see for instance, http://keionline.org/blogs/2009/02/03/intervention-by-brazil-at-wto-general-council-on-seizure-of-500-kilos-of-generic-medicines-by-dutch-customs-aut
> 
> There have been other cases as well. I understand 'border measures' envisaged under ACTA also enables such in transit seizures of third party goods.
> 
> parminder 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>  
>> Thanks
>> Michael
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Bertrand de La Chapelle
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:11 PM
>> To: Nick Ashton-Hart
>> Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; Jovan Kurbalija; McTim
>> Subject: Re: [governance] Internetistan, or the Bit Boat... a new approach to Internet governance!
>>  
>> Dear Nick, 
>>  
>> Just a brief comment on the issue of "transit traffic". This is an interesting component to explore. As I have often said, I believe that Egypt acted in reference to an implicit emerging international principle of "non-tampering with transit traffic" when it blocked access to the Internet during the Arab Spring but did not impact the transit traffic serving the easter coast of Africa. 
>>  
>> Discussing this in more detail would indeed be useful and could probably be part of an international/global regime. 
>>  
>> Best
>>  
>> Bertrand
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Nick Ashton-Hart <nashton at ccianet.org> wrote:
>> Funny, I have been thinking of the Law of the Sea for a few weeks as an interesting construct for the legal protection of the open flow of data.
>>  
>> It is true that there's a built environment to the Internet - but in maritime law ships are also physical and registered with a state. However, the space they travel through, beyond the territorial waters limit, is open sea and by definition not owned by anyone.
>>  
>> If we used this construct to protect the flow of international data, that might be a workable metaphor. The Law of the Sea embodied in UNCLOS is, after all, largely simply a distillation of internationally-understood principles about maritime law that go back to the Roman period. 
>>  
>> We could do much worse than an international understanding that data, when transiting any country between a source and destination in third countries, was legally not actually 'in' the territory or subject to the laws of the state it was transiting, but subject only to an international regime. 
>> 
>> (Bertrand: these ideas are what I was speaking of when I told you at Baku I had an idea for your jurisdiction project that might have potential).
>>  
>> FWIW: For those who are about to remind me, I am aware that the USG has yet to ratify UNCLOS. It is clear that the current Administration is very much in favour of doing so, however, as are many members of the legislative branch).
>> -- 
>> Regards,
>>  
>> Nick Ashton-Hart
>> Geneva Representative
>> Computer & Communications Industry Assocation (CCIA)
>> Tel: +41 (22) 534 99 45
>> Fax: : +41 (22) 594-85-44
>> Mobile: +41 79 595 5468 
>> USA DID: +1 (202) 640-5430
>>  
>> Need to meet with me? Schedule the time that suits us both here: http://meetme.so/nashton
>>  
>> Sent from my one of my handheld thingies, please excuse linguistic mangling.
>> 
>> On 7 Dec 2012, at 16:23, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
>> 
>> Jovan,
>>  
>> thanks for doing a pretty innovative thing here: discussing ideas. Further, bringing a fresh approach and actual expertise. 
>>  
>> My long-standing concern for analogies between Internet governance and the laws of the sea is that the Internet is much more a built environment than the sea (not that the sea is all natural and in fixed form forever, immune to our contamination and our imagintion.) 
>>  
>> So Internet governance refers not only to rules etc. to live on the existing Internet, but also has to be useful as guidance in its expansion and development. To abuse your analogy, it's not only about shipping, fishing, and mining, but also about how to actually make the oceans of tomorrow. 
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