<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Parminder - not "in transit" as such (which would be in international waters). That ship was In the country's waters and in fact docked at a port in the country. So while it is rather bad form - and not as far as I can see OECD policy, but an individual decision by a country to exercise its jurisdiction in this manner .. I can't see where they lack jurisdiction to do this.</div><div><br></div><div>If for example there was a murder or theft or whatever on board the ship when it was docked in port, even though neither the victim nor the criminal were to have left the ship .. what do you think?<br><br>--srs (iPad)</div><div><br>On 12-Dec-2012, at 20:37, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 12 December 2012 07:24 PM,
Michael Kende wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hello Bertrand
and Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> <snip_</o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">The question then
is whether this principle of non-tampering with transit
traffic holds for traffic that may be stored in the country,
even if it was filtered along with other international
content before being viewed by citizens of the country where
it was hosted. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Michael<br>
<br>
You may know that third party cargo in transit is being impounded in
OECD countries for IP violation when the stuff is made on one
country and headed for another, and has nothing to do with the
impounding jurisdiction. see for instance,
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://keionline.org/blogs/2009/02/03/intervention-by-brazil-at-wto-general-council-on-seizure-of-500-kilos-of-generic-medicines-by-dutch-customs-aut">http://keionline.org/blogs/2009/02/03/intervention-by-brazil-at-wto-general-council-on-seizure-of-500-kilos-of-generic-medicines-by-dutch-customs-aut</a><br>
<br>
There have been other cases as well. I understand 'border measures'
envisaged under ACTA also enables such in transit seizures of third
party goods.<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:3B0BA8A4C396324FA545DC0CCDCF271D03C2B838@AMXPRD0510MB390.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com" type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Michael<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bertrand de La Chapelle<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 11, 2012 6:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Ashton-Hart<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; Dr. Alejandro
Pisanty Baruch; Jovan Kurbalija; McTim<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Internetistan, or the Bit
Boat... a new approach to Internet governance!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Nick, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just a brief comment on the issue of
"transit traffic". This is an interesting component to
explore. As I have often said, I believe that Egypt acted in
reference to an implicit emerging international principle of
"<b>non-tampering with transit traffic</b>" when it blocked
access to the Internet during the Arab Spring but did not
impact the transit traffic serving the easter coast of
Africa. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Discussing this in more detail would
indeed be useful and could probably be part of an
international/global regime. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Bertrand<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Nick
Ashton-Hart <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nashton@ccianet.org" target="_blank">nashton@ccianet.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Funny, I have been thinking of the
Law of the Sea for a few weeks as an interesting
construct for the legal protection of the open flow of
data.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is true that there's a built
environment to the Internet - but in maritime law
ships are also physical and registered with a state.
However, the space they travel through, beyond the
territorial waters limit, is open sea and by
definition not owned by anyone.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If we used this construct to
protect the flow of international data, that might be
a workable metaphor. The Law of the Sea embodied in
UNCLOS is, after all, largely simply a distillation of
internationally-understood principles about maritime
law that go back to the Roman period. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We could do much worse than an
international understanding that data, when transiting
any country between a source and destination in third
countries, was legally not actually 'in' the territory
or subject to the laws of the state it was transiting,
but subject only to an international regime. <br>
<br>
(Bertrand: these ideas are what I was speaking of when
I told you at Baku I had an idea for your jurisdiction
project that might have potential).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">FWIW: For those who are about to
remind me, I am aware that the USG has yet to ratify
UNCLOS. It is clear that the current Administration is
very much in favour of doing so, however, as are many
members of the legislative branch).<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nick Ashton-Hart<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Geneva Representative<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Computer & Communications
Industry Assocation (CCIA)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tel: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20534%2099%2045" target="_blank">
+41 (22) 534 99 45</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fax: : <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B41%20%2822%29%20594-85-44" target="_blank">
+41 (22) 594-85-44</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mobile: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B41%2079%20595%205468" target="_blank">
+41 79 595 5468</a> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">USA DID: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B1%20%28202%29%20640-5430" target="_blank">
+1 (202) 640-5430</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Need to meet with me? Schedule
the time that suits us both here: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://meetme.so/nashton" target="_blank">http://meetme.so/nashton</a></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my one of my handheld
thingies, please excuse linguistic mangling.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 7 Dec 2012, at 16:23, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Baruch" <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:apisan@unam.mx" target="_blank">apisan@unam.mx</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">Jovan,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">thanks for doing a pretty
innovative thing here: discussing ideas.
Further, bringing a fresh approach and
actual expertise. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">My long-standing concern for
analogies between Internet governance and
the laws of the sea is that the Internet
is much more a built environment than the
sea (not that the sea is all natural and
in fixed form forever, immune to our
contamination and our imagintion.) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New"">So Internet governance refers
not only to rules etc. to live on the
existing Internet, but also has to be
useful as guidance in its expansion and
development. To abuse your analogy, it's
not only about shipping, fishing, and
mining, but also about how to actually
make the oceans of tomorrow. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New""><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>____________________________________________________________</span><br><span>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:</span><br><span> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a></span><br><span>To be removed from the list, visit:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>For all other list information and functions, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a></span><br><span>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:</span><br><span> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>