[governance] Should Internet based two-sided markers be regulated by countries or govts
parminder
parminder at itforchange.net
Sun Aug 19 05:39:49 EDT 2012
Sala
On Sunday 19 August 2012 12:54 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:
> Firstly, personally, I find it sad when people try to box or
> categorise the developing world as "South". It's a broad attempt for
> someone's convenience to paint us all with the same brush. It
> oversimplifies people's positions and "assumes" that people all think
> the same way or are wired the same way. Nothing could be further from
> the truth.
But it is who you made the categories and put the regulatory issue
between them, isnt it!!? From your last email
"The only material difference really is that developing
countries have been dormant and sleeping. If you look at the
regulatory trends around the world, the developed world has been
efficiently keeping companies hosting content on the Internet in
check and making sure they act responsibly. All of a sudden when
the "sleeping giant" awakens, ie. the developing world wanting
to do the same thing there are all kinds of marketing strategies
designed to take the focus away from the core issues. " (Sala)
Whether it is developed/ developing or North/South, it is a difference
of accent.
I merely asked you, if you indeed think this is a problem, and you
further quoted the specific issue of taxes on the Internet, what is your
proposed solution to it. Why would not a all-country platform to discuss
such issues qualify.... You havent answered other than to say, the
solution is to build capacity of developing countries to participate....
participate in what?! While there are indeed limitation of capacity, it
is very unfair to developing country to deny them legitimate avenues
where participation will be meaningful to produce the necessary policy
outcomes (which ones do you suggest?), and blame it on their
capacity.... People and countries do not need to have capacity to claim
equality of place on the policy table.
> snip
> For the simple reason that I do not believe in the methodology.
what part of 'methodology' do you object against. pl be specific.
> My personal view is that people need to sit together and dialogue and
> take stock.
yes, IGF is for that (where a discussion on enhanced cooperation has
been solidly blocked fr years) and UN CIRP is supposed to another,
futher focussing efforts towards policy outcomes/
> To want to take control of root servers just because majority of them
> are housed in the US in my personal view is not the answer.
?! Sala, CIRP had nothing at all to do with the 13 root servers. Where
did you infer this from ?
> [I am prepared to change my view if and when convinced otherwise] Too
> me it is just countries wanting more geo-political control so they can
> also strengthen their reach.
like, to be able, as you want, to get the appropriate tax revenue from
cross border commercial transactions over the Internet.... Everything in
politics can be given this bad name 'control' . Wonder why all the
controls of US do not hit the same sensitive chords.
>
>
> To discuss just one global Internet policy related issue that you
> have touched upon, fair distribution of taxes accruing, or that
> should accrue, from commercial transactions on the Internet,
> europe has an inter-country agreement on it.... Why shouldnt
> developing country also be party to such agreements, so that they
> dont lose revenue.
>
>
> I agree. This is different from the UN CIRP that was tabled and first
> introduced in Nairobi last year.
Not at all. This (these kinds of issues) was and is what CIRP is mostly
about. Ok, you tell me, how you read CIRP, and then we can have a
discussion about it. IT fro Change's background paper
<http://www.itforchange.net/sites/default/files/ITfC/%20%20Dev%20agenda%20in%20IG%20200412.pdf>
for the Rio meeting, a distinct forerunner to the CIRP, specifically
discusses Internet taxes as a key policy issue that require resolution.
IF people insist on reading CIRP as something other than what it
primarily is, what can one do. It is the power of the hegemonic
discourse.... The kind of dis-balance that civil society should try to
correct.
> What I have yet to see really is building dialogue on what the
> ecosystem or universe is as far as the cyber environment is concerned.
> In my view there are many things that we should fix that require
> prioritization of resources. Things like capacity building to enable
> meaningful participation.
>
> How would taking over critical internet resources by force be any
> good for the developing world if there are competing DNS roots?
Sala, are you now going even further to suggest that CIRP proposed
'competing DNS roots'...... Even if you are referring to the recent
discussion on root server operators, neither side advocated any kind of
'competing roots'....what should I make of your such extreme mis
characterisation of views of those whom you simply wish to disagree with.
parminder
> Any political position, I would say. is only as good as the
> willingness to work on the corresponding real political possibilities.
> If you dont like a CIRP like possibility, sure, do suggest others.
>
> "Capacity Building" to enable meaningful participation because when
> people are empowered, they can meaningfully participate in policy
> decisions in their own countries and in other regional and
> international foras.
> This includes all stakeholders working together for the greater good
> so instead of tearing each other down look into ways to collaborate.
>
> There are topics of great interest to the developing world as far as
> the WCIT is concerned.
>
> But what is the point in vain musings, without putting your
> political currency where your mouth is.
>
>
> I can only do so much as an individual. So far I have tried to do
> this by serving my region within the At Large community in ICANN along
> with hundreds of other volunteers to comment on policies looking out
> after the interests of ordinary internet users.
>
> Being active within my region in the discussion of these issues,
> raising awareness, facilitating trainings making submissions, crafting
> policies etc whether this is with the Regulators, ISPs, ITU, SPC etc.
>
> I did not attend the Asian Pacific Regional IGF because I was engaged
> in awareness and national consultations with a certain Pacific country
> as we were invited by their Government.
>
>
>
> parminder
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday 18 August 2012 11:19 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> wrote:
>> I don't see why they could be exempt from taxes and why they
>> should not be regulated. Ordinarily just as any person travelling
>> to another country is subject to the laws of that country and
>> this is true from the moment you step into their airspace or
>> water or cyber space. What made the US take down Rojadirecta?
>> See: http://www.rojadirecta.com/ where you will see evidence of a
>> domain name take down by ICE Homeland Security Investigations?
>>
>> The only material difference really is that developing countries
>> have been dormant and sleeping. If you look at the regulatory
>> trends around the world, the developed world has been efficiently
>> keeping companies hosting content on the Internet in check and
>> making sure they act responsibly. All of a sudden when the
>> "sleeping giant" awakens, ie. the developing world wanting to do
>> the same thing there are all kinds of marketing strategies
>> designed to take the focus away from the core issues. The reality
>> is that this is a new day, markets are being levelled, knowledge
>> is free and the developing world has been empowered. [/Slight
>> bunny trail: If you think about how some of these countries were
>> formerly under the dominion of others, where much of their wealth
>> and natural resources were sized to build empires whilst their
>> own countries lie in ruins. Countries are now awakening to build
>> their nations, their infrastructures, their economies etc/]
>>
>> Why should'nt the developing world regulate two-sided market
>> economies? At the end of the day, the objections to "Taxation"
>> are about the "bottom line" and if that is countries' only
>> mechanism available for making these corporates act responsibly.
>>
>> In my view the crux of the complex debates revolving around
>> Regulations stems from the notion of "borders". Countries have
>> the responsibility of looking out for their respective interests.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Fouad Bajwa
>> <fouadbajwa at gmail.com <mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I was asked an interesting question today by a colleague on
>> the discussion about Google's interference in national
>> electronic commerce/e-payment, privacy and ITU-ITRs positions
>> in developing countries in Asia.
>>
>> She asked whether developing countries should regulate
>> two-sided market economies where the platforms were US based
>> content and services providers and tax them and design laws
>> to prevent their interference within a sovereign country's
>> policies?
>>
>> Fouad Bajwa
>>
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
>> P.O. Box 17862
>> Suva
>> Fiji
>>
>> Twitter: @SalanietaT
>> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
>> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851 <tel:%2B679%20998%202851>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
>
>
>
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