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Sala<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Sunday 19 August 2012 12:54 PM,
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiA5YrA3BHzpJJU-5Dc0KmtoMGc2PXzN+TK=55+LCoT-0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Firstly, personally, I find it sad when people try to
box or categorise the developing world as "South". It's a broad
attempt for someone's convenience to paint us all with the same
brush. It oversimplifies people's positions and "assumes" that
people all think the same way or are wired the same way. Nothing
could be further from the truth.</blockquote>
<br>
But it is who you made the categories and put the regulatory issue
between them, isnt it!!? From your last email<br>
<br>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>"The only material difference really is that
developing countries have been dormant and sleeping. If you look
at the regulatory trends around the world, the developed world
has been efficiently keeping companies hosting content on the
Internet in check and making sure they act responsibly. All of a
sudden when the "sleeping giant" awakens, ie. the developing
world wanting to do the same thing there are all kinds of
marketing strategies designed to take the focus away from the
core issues. " (Sala)<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Whether it is developed/ developing or North/South, it is a
difference of accent. <br>
<br>
I merely asked you, if you indeed think this is a problem, and you
further quoted the specific issue of taxes on the Internet, what is
your proposed solution to it. Why would not a all-country platform
to discuss such issues qualify.... You havent answered other than to
say, the solution is to build capacity of developing countries to
participate.... participate in what?! While there are indeed
limitation of capacity, it is very unfair to developing country to
deny them legitimate avenues where participation will be meaningful
to produce the necessary policy outcomes (which ones do you
suggest?), and blame it on their capacity.... People and countries
do not need to have capacity to claim equality of place on the
policy table. <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiA5YrA3BHzpJJU-5Dc0KmtoMGc2PXzN+TK=55+LCoT-0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>snip
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>For the simple reason that I do not believe in the
methodology. </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
what part of 'methodology' do you object against. pl be specific.<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiA5YrA3BHzpJJU-5Dc0KmtoMGc2PXzN+TK=55+LCoT-0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>My personal view is that people need to sit together
and dialogue and take stock.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
yes, IGF is for that (where a discussion on enhanced cooperation has
been solidly blocked fr years) and UN CIRP is supposed to another,
futher focussing efforts towards policy outcomes/<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiA5YrA3BHzpJJU-5Dc0KmtoMGc2PXzN+TK=55+LCoT-0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> To want to take control of root servers just because
majority of them are housed in the US in my personal view
is not the answer.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
?! Sala, CIRP had nothing at all to do with the 13 root servers.
Where did you infer this from ?<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiA5YrA3BHzpJJU-5Dc0KmtoMGc2PXzN+TK=55+LCoT-0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> [I am prepared to change my view if and when convinced
otherwise] Too me it is just countries wanting more
geo-political control so they can also strengthen their
reach.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
like, to be able, as you want, to get the appropriate tax revenue
from cross border commercial transactions over the Internet....
Everything in politics can be given this bad name 'control' . Wonder
why all the controls of US do not hit the same sensitive chords. <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiA5YrA3BHzpJJU-5Dc0KmtoMGc2PXzN+TK=55+LCoT-0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font face="Verdana">
<br>
To discuss just one global Internet policy related
issue that you have touched upon, fair distribution of
taxes accruing, or that should accrue, from commercial
transactions on the Internet, europe has an
inter-country agreement on it.... Why shouldnt
developing country also be party to such agreements,
so that they dont lose revenue. </font></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I agree. This is different from the UN CIRP that was
tabled and first introduced in Nairobi last year.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Not at all. This (these kinds of issues) was and is what CIRP is
mostly about. Ok, you tell me, how you read CIRP, and then we can
have a discussion about it. IT fro Change's <a
href="http://www.itforchange.net/sites/default/files/ITfC/%20%20Dev%20agenda%20in%20IG%20200412.pdf">background
paper</a> for the Rio meeting, a distinct forerunner to the CIRP,
specifically discusses Internet taxes as a key policy issue that
require resolution. IF people insist on reading CIRP as something
other than what it primarily is, what can one do. It is the power of
the hegemonic discourse.... The kind of dis-balance that civil
society should try to correct. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiA5YrA3BHzpJJU-5Dc0KmtoMGc2PXzN+TK=55+LCoT-0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> What I have yet to see really is building dialogue on
what the ecosystem or universe is as far as the cyber
environment is concerned. In my view there are many things
that we should fix that require prioritization of
resources. Things like capacity building to enable
meaningful participation.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> How would taking over critical internet resources by
force be any good for the developing world if there are
competing DNS roots?</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Sala, are you now going even further to suggest that CIRP proposed
'competing DNS roots'...... Even if you are referring to the recent
discussion on root server operators, neither side advocated any kind
of 'competing roots'....what should I make of your such extreme mis
characterisation of views of those whom you simply wish to disagree
with. <br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiA5YrA3BHzpJJU-5Dc0KmtoMGc2PXzN+TK=55+LCoT-0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font face="Verdana">Any
political position, I would say. is only as good as the
willingness to work on the corresponding real political
possibilities. If you dont like a CIRP like possibility,
sure, do suggest others. </font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> "Capacity Building" to enable meaningful participation
because when people are empowered, they can meaningfully
participate in policy decisions in their own countries and
in other regional and international foras. </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAJwbTiA5YrA3BHzpJJU-5Dc0KmtoMGc2PXzN+TK=55+LCoT-0Q@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>This includes all stakeholders working together for the
greater good so instead of tearing each other down look
into ways to collaborate.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There are topics of great interest to the developing
world as far as the WCIT is concerned.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font face="Verdana">But
what is the point in vain musings, without putting
your political currency where your mouth is. </font></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I can only do so much as an individual. So far I have
tried to do this by serving my region within the At Large
community in ICANN along with hundreds of other volunteers
to comment on policies looking out after the interests of
ordinary internet users.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Being active within my region in the discussion of
these issues, raising awareness, facilitating trainings
making submissions, crafting policies etc whether this is
with the Regulators, ISPs, ITU, SPC etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I did not attend the Asian Pacific Regional IGF because
I was engaged in awareness and national consultations with
a certain Pacific country as we were invited by their
Government.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> </div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><font face="Verdana">
<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> <br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>On Saturday 18 August 2012 11:19 PM, Salanieta
T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">I don't see why they could
be exempt from taxes and why they should not be
regulated. Ordinarily just as any person
travelling to another country is subject to the
laws of that country and this is true from the
moment you step into their airspace or water or
cyber space. What made the US take down
Rojadirecta? See: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.rojadirecta.com/"
target="_blank">http://www.rojadirecta.com/</a>
where you will see evidence of a domain name take
down by ICE Homeland Security Investigations?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The only material difference really is that
developing countries have been dormant and
sleeping. If you look at the regulatory trends
around the world, the developed world has been
efficiently keeping companies hosting content on
the Internet in check and making sure they act
responsibly. All of a sudden when the "sleeping
giant" awakens, ie. the developing world wanting
to do the same thing there are all kinds of
marketing strategies designed to take the focus
away from the core issues. The reality is that
this is a new day, markets are being levelled,
knowledge is free and the developing world has
been empowered. [<i>Slight bunny trail: If you
think about how some of these countries were
formerly under the dominion of others, where
much of their wealth and natural resources
were sized to build empires whilst their own
countries lie in ruins. Countries are now
awakening to build their nations, their
infrastructures, their economies etc</i>]</div>
<div><br>
<div>Why should'nt the developing world regulate
two-sided market economies? At the end of the
day, the objections to "Taxation" are about
the "bottom line" and if that is countries'
only mechanism available for making these
corporates act responsibly.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In my view the crux of the complex debates
revolving around Regulations stems from the
notion of "borders". Countries have the
responsibility of looking out for their
respective interests.</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 19, 2012
at 1:45 AM, Fouad Bajwa <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com"
target="_blank">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">I was asked an interesting
question today by a colleague on the
discussion about Google's interference
in national electronic
commerce/e-payment, privacy and ITU-ITRs
positions in developing countries in
Asia. </p>
<p dir="ltr">She asked whether developing
countries should regulate two-sided
market economies where the platforms
were US based content and services
providers and tax them and design laws
to prevent their interference within a
sovereign country's policies?</p>
<span><font color="#888888">
<p dir="ltr">Fouad Bajwa</p>
</font></span><br>
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<div><br>
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-- <br>
<div>Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala</div>
<div>P.O. Box 17862</div>
<div>Suva</div>
<div>Fiji</div>
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