[governance] IGF plus IGC + only members list.

Sun May 22 13:48:22 EDT 2011

On 22.05.2011 19:38, Avri Doria wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The problem with keeping a single list is that any strategic or
> tactical planning will be done by adhoc closed groups of self
> selected individuals.  That has happened for years and will probably
> continue to happen.

That is what I meant in my earlier mail.
>
> Then again having a closed list probably would not work as someone
> would be on the list whose real solidarity was with the PS/ICT so
> everything would leak anyway.  We will never be able to be as
> secretive or as single focused as PS/ICT and a 'closed' list will
> probably not achieve anything in the long run other than to give us
> false confidence that our information was not being misused and
> abused.

I think the main problem has always been and that we are not as 
homogeneous as the private sector. The idea to create a new list for 
members only is based on the illusionary hope that we could become a 
stronger, less heterogeneous group.
>
> The IGC functions well as a place where a diverse group of CS leaning
> stakeholder groups and individuals (as well as observers) comes
> together to do some things, like present candidate lists etc and make
> generic pro CS statements.  To do anything serious, it must be done
> by coherent advocacy groups like APC or IT for Change and others,
> with the IGC serving as a clearinghouse for coordination when
> coordination is necessary or possible.

I fully agree. This division of work is not necessarily a bad thing. 
What counts in my view is that we maintain a transnational public space 
independent of any specific organization that addresses IG issues from 
cs/policy perspective.

jeanette

  I do not think we can ever
> expect the IGC to be the action oriented group.  In a sense it is a
> multi-substakeholder group for Civil Society where various CS trends
> meet and find their common ground. But it seems the real advocacy
> emphasis has to come from other more focused groups.
>
> a.
>
> On 22 May 2011, at 13:13, CW Mail wrote:
>
>> +1 supporting JH.
>>
>> In any event, the discussion on IGC and IGF issues is in practice
>> conducted by a small number of committed and informed people. It is
>> beneficial that their and our discussion be conducted in public in
>> a single forum.
>>
>> CW
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 May 2011, at 18:55, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22.05.2011 17:52, Katitza Rodriguez wrote:
>>>> Can you elaborate your arguments, please?
>>>
>>> I don't want to encourage what I argued against to begin with,
>>> another discussion about splitting the mailing list.
>>>
>>> This mailing list has proven to be flexible enough to fulfill
>>> several functions, providing an open platform to discuss IG
>>> issues across single stakeholder groups and simultaneously
>>> providing the space to develop collective statements. It is
>>> actually amazing that this mailing list with its highly diverse
>>> list of subscribers has managed to survive for so many years
>>> without losing significant shares of subscribers (which doesn't
>>> say much about its actual readers though).
>>>
>>> A splitting of the list risks destroying this space without any
>>> clear benefit. We don't have that many secrets to hide from other
>>> stakeholder groups (at least that I would know of) that seem
>>> worth taking such a chance. If there is a need for strategizing,
>>> small groups can always form offlist, and have often formed for
>>> that matter.
>>>
>>> This mailing list is now 8 or 9 years old. It survived the end of
>>> WSIS and it might even survive the demise of the IGF. Its asset
>>> is its openness and its subscriber list. It would be sad if we
>>> destroyed it in the name of narrow understanding of civil
>>> society.
>>>
>>> jeanette
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/22/11 5:49 PM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.05.2011 17:17, parminder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sunday 22 May 2011 02:02 PM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we've had this discussion about different lists countless
>>>>>>> times before. Fortunately, I think, there was never a
>>>>>>> majority for those who argued in favor of differentiating
>>>>>>> between IGF as an open multistakeholder platform and IGC
>>>>>>> as a civil society advocacy organization.
>>>>>> Jeanette,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did not understand what would you mean by
>>>>>> non-differentiating between "IGF as an open
>>>>>> multistakeholder platform and IGC as a civil society
>>>>>> advocacy organization". Are the two not very different
>>>>>> kinds of institutions?
>>>>>
>>>>> They share one mailing list and I would advise against
>>>>> changing that.
>>>>>
>>>>> jeanette
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And our charter clearly poses IGC as a civil society
>>>>>> advocate organisation. That is what we are supposed to be,
>>>>>> if we are not very ably that at the moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> parminder
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems unlikely that a new discussion would lead to
>>>>>>> different results. Therefore, if possible, lets not
>>>>>>> indulge in this issue again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My pragmatic suggestion would be to form informal and
>>>>>>> temporary subgroups for issues that need non-public
>>>>>>> coordination. The membership in such subgroups would be
>>>>>>> hand-picked and thus intransparent. Since statements on
>>>>>>> behalf of the IGC would still need voting, I don't see a
>>>>>>> problem with that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> jeanette
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.05.2011 10:18, Izumi AIZU wrote:
>>>>>>>> As one of the co-coordinators, I would like to respond
>>>>>>>> briefly to the request or suggestion Katitza made about
>>>>>>>> the need for creating a new, CS-only list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As already indicated here, there are pros and cons for
>>>>>>>> this. If there is enough support to go for voting,
>>>>>>>> then, yes, it will be the coordinators responsibility
>>>>>>>> to open for such voting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I like to see how many are explicitly in favor of
>>>>>>>> creating this new list and how many are not so, but
>>>>>>>> before doing so, please express your reactions first on
>>>>>>>> the current list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> izumi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also would like to call attention to the fact that
>>>>>>>>> this list is open to other stakeholders including
>>>>>>>>> public authorities, government officials, technical
>>>>>>>>> community, and business sector representatives.
>>>>>>>>> Therefore, members need to understand that MAG
>>>>>>>>> members have a very difficult task to share
>>>>>>>>> strategies in a public list. Any public strategy that
>>>>>>>>> we can share here, can always harm our collective
>>>>>>>>> efforts in spaces where disclosing your strategy in
>>>>>>>>> advance is a big problem and can harm our work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would like to ask the coordinators to create a list
>>>>>>>>> for IGC-only members that is close to their members.
>>>>>>>>> In that way, civil society MAG members will be able
>>>>>>>>> to provide a better report after the meeting.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All the best, Katitza
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>
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