[governance] Merger of workshop "Reflection on the Indian proposal towards an IGF 2.0"

Adam Peake ajp at glocom.ac.jp
Fri May 13 06:46:12 EDT 2011


Fouad, a shame you have taken such offence.  I do 
know what it's like to be criticized... I was a 
MAG member and coordinator for a couple of years. 
But you are very sensitive. And blaming the 
coordinators makes no sense, just do your part.

More important though is something you say at the end of your long email:


>I have already been threatened three times 
>during MAG meetings etc and it does hold value.

Threats of what kind?  Doesn't sound good at all.  Please explain.


As for the rest, hope all the MAG members will 
remember what they said when taking part in the 
nominating process and having names put forward 
for the MAG.  Not clear what any does anymore.

Adam



>Kindly accept my apologies in advance for being direct as this is upsetting.
>
>Adam that would be arguable. I appreciate your 
>coming back at me as if I or our MAG members may 
>be faulty. I have never received a single 
>response to my requests to the list when I 
>requested for input. this happened in 2009, 2010 
>and now fingers being pointed in 2011 which is 
>upsetting.
>
>At my end, i have taken IGC statements to the 
>MAG meetings and attempted to the best of my 
>knowledge. I have run after IGC members present 
>taking ongoing advice on issues. Ginger, 
>Parminder, Anriyette, Jovan, Ian, Bertrand, 
>Miguel, George, Qusai, Marillia, Bill and the 
>list goes on have all been very kind and helping.
>
>For the first time in 3 years you interacted 
>with me in the last mag meeting on issues of 
>participation. Sorry to say Avri has been right 
>in many circumstances and so has Parminder that 
>IGC does lack coordination. It is not time to 
>point fingers but to help work out and 
>strategize for the upcoming meeting.
>
>People here come from various organizations and 
>backgrounds. In my case the developing state is 
>my major concern and the continuous death and 
>human right violation issues associated with 
>Internet policy are the biggest to threat to me, 
>my citizenry and many others in the developing 
>world.
>
>I have witnessed that there is more interest in 
>being part of mag by many then to actually 
>tackle the issues relevant to IG. We have to get 
>our act straight otherwise this is not belong us.
>
>Where is IGC's MAG working group thread or 
>discussions, why haven't the coordinators ever 
>initiated such a thing? Why isn't there a skype 
>discussion group for Igc in open consultations 
>and mag? Why aren't we coordinated whereas we 
>take so much time to relate and repeat histories 
>of policy institutions and arrangements.
>
>I hear you Adam but you do have the senior 
>experience and exposure to help us from 
>developing countries, work with us and support 
>advice sharing for open consultations and mag 
>meetings. Being cynical is fine but really I get 
>upset with all my developed country CS peers to 
>be arguing on issues of least relevance to the 
>developing world and more on history and
>Process theory.
>
>If we can't be helped by you then don't ridicule 
>us especially when we are a victim of our own 
>severe life threatening situations and still 
>struggling. I have already been threatened three 
>times during MAG meetings etc and it does hold 
>value.
>
>I wish you and many others would be more understanding.
>
>
>Fouad Bajwa
>sent using my iPad
>
>On 12 May 2011, at 05:58 PM, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
>
>>  On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Fouad Bajwa <fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  I will be going to the meetings.
>>>
>>>  We have the workshop scoring activity underway already and it ends at
>>>  the end of this week.
>>>
>>>  I am focusing on IG4D Workshops.
>>>
>>>  IGC really needs to work with its MAG 
>>>representatives on issues of interest.
>>>
>>
>>  You have that the wrong way round.
>>
>  > MAG representatives really need to work with the IGC.
>>
>>  When nominated everyone made promises to consult, inform, etc.  It's
>>  not been happening.
>>
>>  Adam
>>  '
>>
>>>  Sorry for the short reply...travelling.....!
>>>
>>>  Fouad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 4:57 PM,  <katitza at eff.org> wrote:
>  >>> I'm going through all the workshops, one by one to be ready for the MAG.
>>>>  However during the meeting, we might divided the work by themes. I will be
>>>>  working in the SOP workshops.
>>>>
>>>>  If there are other workshops that are well 
>>>>done (ie touching the key and hot
>>>>  policy issues) that require highly attention, let me know so I do not miss
>>>>  it! Katitza.
>>>>
>>>>  Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>>
>>>>  ________________________________
>>>>  From: katitza at eff.org
>>>>  Sender: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>  Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 14:41:10 +0000
>>>>  To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>; Marilia Maciel<mariliamaciel at gmail.com>;
>>>>  Norbert Bollow<nb at bollow.ch>
>>>>  ReplyTo: governance at lists.cpsr.org,katitza at eff.org
>>>>  Subject: Re: [governance] Merger of workshop "Reflection on the
>>>>  Indianproposal towards an IGF 2.0"
>>>>  Thanks. I'm going to Geneva for the MAG meeting (thanks to APC support). I
>>>>  will take care of the workshops. I haven't been following the list in the
>>>>  last few weeks. Any update about the main concerns from IGC that I should
>>>>  make sure to defend, please let me know.
>>>>
>>>>  All the best, Katitza.
>>>>
>>>>  Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>>>>
>>>>  ________________________________
>>>>  From: Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
>>>>  Sender: governance at lists.cpsr.org
>>>>  Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 09:59:54 -0300
>>>>  To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>; Norbert Bollow<nb at bollow.ch>
>>>>  ReplyTo: governance at lists.cpsr.org,Marilia 
>>>>Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com>
>>>>  Subject: Re: [governance] Merger of workshop "Reflection on the Indian
>>>>  proposal towards an IGF 2.0"
>>>>
>>>>  Like Jeremy said, the reasons are difficult 
>>>>to speculate. I believe that our
>>>>  main concern should be if the merger is in the best interest of our
>>>>  proposal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Two points I made in the meeting yesterday were that we should not do a
>>>>  revival of CSTD WG (go through all topics in a superficial manner without
>>>>  reaching any conclusions) and we should not 
>>>>focus on procedural issues (ex:
>>>>  CSTD WG x MAG as a way of improving the IGF). These are the two potential
>>>>  shortcomings of the proposals advanced, 
>>>>respectively, by the business sector
>>>>  and the technical community, in my view.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  A merger should not make us lose our focus. Using indian proposal as a
>>>>  starting point to discuss topics in-depth could help us ventilate ideas,
>>>>  reach a clear understanding and exorcise 
>>>>some ghosts that hunt IGF¹s closet
>>>>  for a while, such as the fear of more concrete outcomes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The only possibility I see for a merger would be that we have a longer
>>>>  workshop, with half of it dedicated to a 
>>>>³setting the scene² and an overview
>>>>  of the main issues advanced in CSTD WG (that seems to be the core of the
>>>>  proposal from the business sector) and the 
>>>>other half would be dedicated to
>>>>  focus on the topics covered by Indian proposal. But I don¹t know if that
>>>>  would be acceptable to the other groups and 
>>>>I am not convinced this would be
>>>>  in the best interest of our proposal in the end, but only a move driven by
>>>>  political considerations.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  In any case, we should just be aware that if we do not merge, other groups
>>>>  will probably try to impinge us with the political burden of
>>>>  non-cooperation. We cannot let this stick. There are always several IGF
>>>>  workshops on NN, youth, etc. So why there can¹t be 2 or 3 workshops on IGF
>>>>  improvement?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Best,
>>>>
>>>>  Marília
>>>>
>>>>  On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 7:32 AM, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
>>>>>>  On 12/05/11 16:53, Norbert Bollow wrote:
>>>>>>>  Jeremy Malcolm <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  The ICC/BASIS and ISOC were invited to participate in our workshop,
>>>>>>>>  "Reflection on the Indian proposal towards an IGF 2.0".  Instead,
>>>>>>>>  they
>>>>>>>>  responded by proposing competing workshops of their own and
>>>>>>>>  suggesting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  that the three be merged.
>>>>>>>  Is their motivation for choosing this course of action known?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  How do their perspectives on workshop outcomes compare to the
>  >>>>>> desires of Marilia and yourself?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  A summary was sent around privately after the teleconference, but we
>>>>>>  have been requested not to repost it.  Anyway, my notes of the
>>>>>>  teleconference include a lot of catch-phrases like "holistic dialogue",
>>>>>>  "all-encompassing", "general debate", "range of ideas"... as opposed to
>>>>>>  the much more focused agenda for our workshop.  I'm not sure how much
>>>>>>  more I can say about their motivations or perspectives, but it is not
>>>>>>  difficult to speculate.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Ok, given that there has been plenty of holistic dialogue and general
>>>>>  debate on the all-encompassing range of ideas already, I'd strongly
>>>>>  support sticking to the "much more focused agenda" that Marilia and
>>>>>  you have in mind. It's IMO not a bad thing to have two workshops on
>>>>>  the same topic if the two workshops differ significantly in how they
>>>>>  approach the topic, provided they're not scheduled to both take place
>>>>>  at the same time. IGF participants are then free to attend one or the
>>>>>  other or both. (I personally certainly won't be found attending the
>>>>>  non-focused one, but nevertheless I think that there's nothing wrong
>>>>>  with some groups wanting to organize another opportunity for a broad
>>>>>  debate for those who wish to participate in that.)
>>>>>
>>>>>  Greetings,
>>>>>  Norbert
>>>>>  ____________________________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>>  Centro de Tecnologia e Sociedade
>>>>  FGV Direito Rio
>>>>
>>>>  Center for Technology and Society
>>>>  Getulio Vargas Foundation
>>>>  Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
>>>>
>>>>  ____________________________________________________________
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>>>  ____________________________________________________________
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>____________________________________________________________
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>
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