[governance] [lack of] Net Neutrality for Mobile Internet in different shapes and forms?

parminder parminder at itforchange.net
Wed Mar 16 21:25:47 EDT 2011 

I think there is enough commonality about what people consider under the 
Net neutrality (NN) rubric. Norway's NN guidelines, and the recent NN 
decision by US's FCC will make it clear.

It is not at all true that in UK primarily download speeds is what is 
meant by most when they speak of NN. For instance, the BBC Director 
General's comments at 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jan/19/mark-thompson-internet-bbc 
makes it clear. No idea why Roland should insist that the contours of 
the debate are not 'relatively' clear in this regard.

especially insidious is to link advocacy of NN to piracy. Quote from 
Roland's earlier email

 >Unfortunately, that might be what *you* think NN means, and for all   
I   know it's the standard meaning in your country. It's absolutely not  
what
 >they mean when the UK press writes about it. (Think about it - the   
biggest issue is restricting P2P and NNTP downloads of pirate  movies,  
what "content >provider" is there who would pay the networks to  remove  
that restriction?)

Roland, if when you hear p2p you just think piracy, that the biggest 
value of the Internet platform from a progressive point of view is lost 
on you.

On Thursday 17 March 2011 12:37 AM, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message 
> <AANLkTinDvjczk2sz7ifmwMXSXA0gvCNNObt38qrw48wF at mail.gmail.com>, at 
> 14:51:13 on Wed, 16 Mar 2011, Ivar A. M. Hartmann 
> <ivarhartmann at gmail.com> writes
>> Roland,
>> if there are different definitions used by different groups of people,
>> wouldn't you want to use the definition Parminder referred to when
>> you're communicating with the audience in this list?
>
> Even if the UK authorities allow the ISPs to be non-Neutral, that's of 
> little relevance to Parminder's issues because "neutrality" has a 
> different context.
>
>> I don't believe we're all from the UK here, or are we?
>
> Nor are we all from Parminder's part of the world, with the issues 
> he's concerned about.
>
> So I think we are in fierce agreement.
>
> Roland.
>
>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 13:02, Roland Perry 
>> <roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:
>>  In message <4D80B666.4070403 at itforchange.net>, at 18:38:54 on Wed,
>>  16
>>  Mar 2011, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> writes
>> >
>> >
>> >On Wednesday 16 March 2011 04:09 PM, Roland Perry wrote:
>> >  In message <
>> >
>>  16BC5877C4C91649AF7A89BF3BCA7AB82C9BB6C34F at SERVER01.globalpartners.local 
>>
>> > >, at 09:39:13 on Wed, 16 Mar 2011, Lisa Horner
>> > <LisaH at global-partners.co.uk> writes
>> >
>> >>    Meanwhile, this ?net neutrality summit? which it is feared will
>> >>    give rise to a 2 speed internet is happening in the UK
>>  today....
>> >>    watch this space.
>> >
>> >>
>>  http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/09/isps-outline-stance-net 
>>
>> >>    -neutrality
>> >  There is already a 2 speed Internet.
>> >  Pay $10 a month and get one speed, pay $50 a month and get a
>>  higher
>> >  one.
>> >
>> >Roland, why dont you just accept, and not keep confusing people,
>>  that
>> >there is big structural difference between differing speeds as per
>>  what
>> >content user pays, and differing speeds as per what content
>>  provider
>> >pays, and the Net neutrality issue deals with the second issue
>>  alone.
>>
>>  Unfortunately, that might be what *you* think NN means, and for all
>>  I
>>  know it's the standard meaning in your country. It's absolutely not
>>  what
>>  they mean when the UK press writes about it. (Think about it - the
>>  biggest issue is restricting P2P and NNTP downloads of pirate
>>  movies,
>>  what "content provider" is there who would pay the networks to
>>  remove
>>  that restriction?)
>>
>> >You dont have to agree with the NN guys on what is right and what
>>  is
>> >wrong, but why keep muddying established definitions.
>>
>>  I would be very happy if there were differing words for the various
>>  differing "meanings". Unfortunately, there are many different
>>  concepts
>>  which are all given the same name (NN). What I'm trying to do here
>>  is
>>  *agree* that there is this confusion, and that the outcome of
>>  so-called
>>  "Network Neutrality" debate in the UK is irrelevant to much of the
>>  rest
>>  of the world, because it's a different thing that's being debated.
>>
>> >  What people want is the $50 Internet for $10, and for everyone in
>> >  the country to be able to watch a High Definition[3] TV programme
>>  at
>> >  once.
>> >No, that is not at all what NN advoactes want, and you know that.
>>
>>  But it's what the UK NN advocates want, it was a UK-based discussion
>>  that was linked to.
>>
>>  Here's what I posted in another forum about NN, a few days ago, hope
>>  it
>>  helps clarify things:
>>
>> <quote>
>>
>>  Net Neutrality means different things to different people.
>>
>>  Here in the UK it's about throttling bandwidth hogs like P2P and
>>  iPlayer
>>   in the busy hours.
>>
>>  In developing countries it's about Megabytes per dollar being the
>>  same
>>   on fixed and mobile networks (fat chance of that in developed
>>   countries either).
>>
>>  In some jurisdictions it's about blocking VoIP (but that tends to be
>>  an
>>   incumbent nationalised telco protecting PSTN revenue and the
>>  ability
>>   to wiretap the calls, not bandwidth).
>>
>>  In the USA it means throttling specific sites which don't pay you to
>>   deliver their bandwidth-hogging content. (Although to some extent
>>   that's also the iPlayer issue in UK). And a suspicion that as the
>>  big
>>   ISPs are owned by telcos, they might start blocking VoIP as well.
>>
>>  [Although Skype video is an example of a site where the final two of
>>  the
>>  above can get a bit entangled].
>>
>> </quote>
>>  --
>>  Roland Perry
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