[governance] MSism and democracy

Tue Jun 21 04:53:54 EDT 2011

+1

Je voulais surtout rajouter par rapport à ce qui a été si bien dit dans tous les
commentaires faits dans la liste que la difficulté de contribuer pour les non
anglophones réside sur le temps nécessaire à essayer de comprendre ce qui a été
dit et de traduire ce qu'on pense en anglais pour se faire comprendre par la
communauté.
Il faut saluer par contre la disponibilité des outils de traduction même si nous
avons tous fait l'expérience de voir ce qui est traduit nécessitant quelques
corrections et une contextualisation pour comprendre de quoi il s'agit.
Pendant ce temps où la communauté (anglophone) échange, élabore les points de
décision, beaucoup d'acteurs ne font que suivre à distance (par exemple mon cas)
et au moment où on arrive à publier quelque chose, qu'on s'est forcé et prendre
le soin de le traduire, on se rend compte que le point a été déjà abordé et des
conclusions ont été faites.
Je crois que c'est un point très important à prendre en compte dans cette
démarche de multi-partismes si je peux le dire ainsi et je crois aussi qu'en
parler au prochain FGI à Nairobi serait une bonne chose.

ATTOUMANI MOHAMED Karim,
Comoros representative on the Governmental Advisory Committee of ICANN
Ingénieur Télécoms en Transmission, Réseaux et Commutation
Chef du Département Études et Projets,
Autorité Nationale de Régulation des TIC (ANRTIC) - Union des Comores,
(+269) 334 37 06 (Mobile Moroni) - ID Skype: attoukarim
Quoting Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com>:

> On 6/20/11, Marilia Maciel <mariliamaciel at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I have to say that this has been one of the best threads of discussion I
> > have ever seen on this list. I am sorry I jumped in late to comment on
> many
> > of the issues regarding multilingualism. But the way that the discussion
> has
> > shifted from one ISM to the other clearly illustrates Parminder´s point
> > about the need to improve multistakeholderism.
> 
> Agreed, a useful discussion indeed.  I wish to add or emphasize some
> points that add nuance and perhaps paradox or contradiction to some
> extent.
> 
> 1.  I have had an international/intercultural marital relationship
> since 1997.  I've seen the change from the early years where language
> difficulties were more pronounced.  However, there was a definite
> relationship-advantage to these difficulties because we could also,
> and often did, think that differences were "cultural differences" and
> the like and not personal attacks.  As we got to be more and more like
> co-native speakers of English, this relationship advantage tended to
> go away, and there were therefore more disagreements, usually because
> we more easily concluded a personal comment or innuendo was intended,
> and not a "cultural difference" in expression.
> 
> The moral of this story about multilingualism is that intercultural or
> multilingual communication has its advantages in terms of promoting
> mutual respect of the parties, as well as disadvantages, many of which
> have already been pointed to, with good expression.
> 
> 2.  Going a little deeper, even among native speakers or fluent
> speakers of a given language, there are many sub-languages that are
> often not recognized.  I imagine every language is like English and
> thus that in every language, the written and verbal forms of the
> language can be considered sub-languages.  The evidence of this is
> seen when very good verbal communication is reduced to a written
> transcript, and we see the "loss in translation" so to speak.  The
> reverse is also true, when the written is read out loud, it often
> loses a little, and/or the reader has to add pause and emphasis not in
> the text in order to make it most sensible.  Lawyers doing
> court-related work like depositions learn to be quite conscious of how
> the verbal word will translate onto and read on paper. Well, if the
> lawyers are any good they become conscious of this difference.
> 
> Each technical discipline develops its own specialized vocabulary.
> The control of the meanings of words by experts in each field allows
> their number of meanings to be reduced, and to have those meanings be
> precise.  While most everyone hates to see something expressed in
> legal-ese or other technical jargon, there are reasons why this
> legalese develops.  If we 'translate' into "plain English", the
> shorter words used tend quite heavily to have many more definitions in
> terms of numbers, and are thus more ambiguous by quite a bit than
> technical speech, even though technical speech or legalese is by no
> means always clear, even to people in the discipline who know that
> sub-language well.
> 
> 3.  WHile my third point here does not mean to dismiss any efforts in
> this area whatever, we should also be aware of the positive sides of
> multilingualism, and the advantages of communication when the parties
> are aware of, and respectful of, the limitations of language.  A large
> part, but not all, of the positive effects of multilingualism comes
> from the awareness of the limitations of speech, which are always
> present, but rarely fully acknowledged by speakers who are both either
> native speakers or fluent in the language.  These limitations are, of
> course, also experienced by native speakers -- especially when talking
> across sub-languages of the native tongue -- but very often the native
> speakers are totally unaware of the fact that a minor form of
> translation is needed within the sub-languages!
> 
> On ted.com recently there was a short video presentation from a woman
> who taught English in the Middle East.  It ended up being a passionate
> defense of the need for multiple languages.  Because we all know
> things are lost in translation, or not translatable, we need to
> preserve multiple languages in order to preserve certain valuable or
> different ways of thinking.  We might still have a common currency or
> common language, but it should not be at the expense of losing our
> capabilities for whatever things Persian, Spanish, Finnish, Tongan or
> other languages have, that English does not have.
> 
> I do not think we should yearn for the destruction of all language
> barriers.  In fact, the irreducible reality that every time we speak
> we speak at least somewhat ambiguously means that in order to have
> real conversation we must each yearn or desire to understand the
> other.  We can not assume that all meaning is right there at the
> surface and at first glance if we truly wish to be civil and to
> understand.   So, IF WE ARE CIVIL, then the very ambiguity of language
> is a blessing that actually helps bring people together.  It is only
> the universal spirit of rudeness or intolerance that doesn't try to
> understand the other.  The problem is more one of intolerance than it
> is one of multiple languages, or even of being understood.  Put
> another way, if all human language were as clear as the clearest
> programmers' code, life would be a total bore.
> 
> Yours in a salute to [initial] ambiguity, provided the participants
> have mutual respect!  ;)
> 
> Paul
> 
> -- 
> Paul R Lehto, J.D.
> P.O. Box 1
> Ishpeming, MI  49849
> lehto.paul at gmail.com
> 906-204-4026 (cell)
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