[governance] IPv4 - IPv6 incompatiblity (was Re: Towards Singapore)

[Avri Doria]

On 18 Jun 2011, at 18:23, Carlos A. Afonso wrote:

> I on the other hand trust we *will* get rid of internal combustion engines, x generations from now. :)


x generations as in !0 generations?

I figure that same for IPv4.

a.



> 
> --c.a.
> 
> On 06/18/2011 07:13 AM, Paul Wilson wrote:
>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> and don't mix, and who ask if IPv6 users need to buy different services,
>>>> different cables, different equipment, different email address, etc etc
>>>> to stay online. It takes quite some explaining to undo that bundle of
>>> 
>>> [Milton L Mueller] well, not all of these are complete misconceptions.
>>> Some new equipment does have to be purchased, esp by network operators.
>>> No, the physical layer doesn't change. Some services may not work.
>>> Equipment that runs dual stack won't have to be replaced.
>> 
>> New equipment yes, but what I said was: not different equipment for the
>> 2 different protocols.
>> 
>> And whether services work or not is not a significant function of this
>> supposed "compatibility" issue, there are plenty of other more important
>> factors at play there. What I am trying to do Milton, is to get over one
>> particular and specific point of irrelevance and confusion in this
>> debate, not to address every other problem under this particular sun.
>> 
>> 
>>>> I've promoted an analogy between the v4-v6 transition and the transition
>>>> from oil to electricity in our transport system. And it works for this
>>>> discussion as well: you don't try to plug your volkswagon beetle into
>>>> the mains - because oil and electrons certainly don't mix - but that old
>>>> car is still perfectly "compatible" with the latest electric one: it
>>>> drives on the same roads, uses the same rules and the same controls; and
>>>> carries the same passengers in the same way.
>>> 
>>> [Milton L Mueller] This analogy misses something important: the network
>>> externality, or what some call network effects. An electric car gets me
>>> from point A to point B regardless of how many others are driving
>>> electric cars. My ability to use ipv6 to full effect and reap full
>>> benefits, however, depends very much on how many other people are also
>>> using ipv6. (there are some network effects in the fueling infrastructure
>>> in the migration, but they are weaker and secondary compared to the v4-v6
>>> migration.)
>> 
>> Indeed it is an analogy, and therefore imperfect.
>> 
>> 
>>> On the other hand the electric-gasoline analogy is a good one in that it
>>> should be evident to everyone that we will _never_ completely get rid of
>>> internal combustion vehicles.
>> 
>> I have said myself that IPv4 addresses will be around for a long time,
>> but "never" is much longer than any forecast that I've personally ever
>> made. Eventually IPv4 will be irrelevant enough that it will be dropped
>> from services with few people noticing. There will be a cost in
>> maintaining IPv4 support on commercial services, so it actually will be
>> withdrawn from entire networks, at a time when that decision makes
>> commercial sense. And this will happen quickly, once a tipping point is
>> reached (I mean within possibly 5 or 10 years).
>> 
>> 
>>> [Milton L Mueller]
>>> [Milton L Mueller] This is a good point. A clean break will have some
>>> benefits - if we succeed in making it.
>> 
>> Not just "some" benefits, but inestimable benefits, when you really
>> consider the reality of ongoing exponential growth of the Internet, over
>> decades to come.
>> 
>> Paul.
>> 
>> 
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