[governance] Egypt and Internet Governance
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com
Mon Jan 31 14:53:19 EST 2011
Thanks Lisa for the explanation and please don't apologise for the length of
the email, it was a clear descriptive overview of the development so far. I
liked your email. Thank you.
*I think the Charter that the IRP dynamic coalition is working on could be a
useful, international campaigning document in circumstances like this.....
We of course shouldn't overestimate the extent to which statements of
principles, or even international law, impact on authoritarian, or even
so-called democratic, states.*
*(Lisa Horner 2011)*
I agree and think that jurisprudence, and philosophy has to evolve and I
particularly find interesting that whilst Hobbes, Montesqiueue and Locke all
agreed that there should be checks and balances, they all had different
governance structures (political structures in mind) that in their view
would be best models for the checks and balances that were necessary for the
rule of law to prevail. I will sign up to the mailing list you sent.
I can understand if access becomes construed as acceptable by virtue of
customary international law but for all countries to accept "access" as a
human right, it places a huge burden and demand for the philosophers today
to start deveoping jurisprudence and philosophy that will address things
like Benedict Andersen (1936) where nations have "imaginary boundaries".
The reality with the way the internet has like an avalanche invaded our
world as we knew it, e commerce, trade, communication, health, security has
changed and whilst the Internet Superhighway is in literally every country
in the world where some are guarded/filtered/censored analagous to having
watchmen and others are free to run their traffic, quite similar to
"countries" really and with the extraterritorial implications, it makes us
wonder what sort of philosophy should we create to deal with these social
gaps.
We know that it is literally proven that broadband is an enabler for
economic growth but in some developing countries, the growth of a GNP can
mean the growth of a few people's income bracket and that reflects in the
GNP and does not necessarily mean that the nation itself has benefitted.
Although, at the same time that we do know ICT is an enabler and allows for
improved sectors within the national economy - communication, health, trade
etc.
We also know that different countries have different political framework and
will and the result has translated into the manner in which they filter or
censor or rule their ISPs.
These and many more issues, including network neutrality and its impact on
other countries development.
The real question that lies beneath the clutter is whether as far as the
internet is concerned are the imaginary boundaries within the nation state
connecting to another nation state or is it an alliance of networks etc. I
am not a "techie" so I don't claim to have the answer to that.
The other question is who should licence an ISP, should it be licensed by
the country that it operates in or externally? Or alternatively, should the
same arrangements be in place but the rules change.
Even if the Internet were declared as a right, my guess would be it would be
through a Declaration and as far as members of the General Assembly
concerned, most of them would worry about the capacity to ratify and comply.
How are these questions and concerns going to be addressed and what would
the permanent members react?
*A virtual round of applause for Lisa et al's ongoing diligent efforts to
develop the Charter of Human Rights and Principles for the Internet.
The Charter is still in beta, and may well stay in beta for some time.
But perhaps already a useful rallying point in these interesting times.*
*(Lee W McKnight 2011)*
**
Having said all that, I agree with Lee, a virtual round of applause for the
work that your Team is doing and at least someone is doing something about
it even if it stays in beta for some time but as we know from history, even
before the Magna Carta, huge sacrifices has to be made to see the Magna
Carta come to pass.
All the best Lisa!
Sala
On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 4:51 AM, Lisa Horner <LisaH at global-partners.co.uk>wrote:
> Thanks Lee, and I join the applause to all of the active coalition members
> who've been committed to the process... It is still in beta - it's a lot
> more complex a project that I think anyone thought it would be. But it's
> important to get it right, and the more support we have, the stronger it
> will be.
>
> All the best,
> Lisa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee W McKnight [mailto:lmcknigh at syr.edu]
> Sent: 31 January 2011 13:54
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Lisa Horner
> Subject: RE: [governance] Egypt and Internet Governance
>
> Hi,
>
> A virtual round of applause for Lisa et al's ongoing diligent efforts to
> develop the Charter of Human Rights and Principles for the Internet.
>
> The Charter is still in beta, and may well stay in beta for some time.
>
> But perhaps already a useful rallying point in these interesting times.
>
> Lee
> _______________________________________
> From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org]
> On Behalf Of Lisa Horner [LisaH at global-partners.co.uk]
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 6:01 AM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.orgf more input
> Subject: RE: [governance] Egypt and Internet Governance
>
> Hi all
>
> It's abhorrent that the Egyptian government is trying to stifle
> communication in this way. It just goes to show how powerful communication
> is. The continued activism of people on the streets in Egypt in these
> circumstances, and the ways in which information is still circulating inside
> and outside of the country, are testimony to people's dedication and
> commitment.
>
> I think the Charter that the IRP dynamic coalition is working on could be a
> useful, international campaigning document in circumstances like this.....
> We of course shouldn't overestimate the extent to which statements of
> principles, or even international law, impact on authoritarian, or even
> so-called democratic, states. I was asked recently by an activist from Gaza
> what impact the Charter could have in the contexts she's working in....in
> which governments wield power over private companies in arbitrary ways. But
> if we can build an authoritative document that has broad support from
> different communities, we can hopefully push norms in the right direction,
> we have a solid basis for our campaigning work, and can demonstrate the
> relevance (and necessity) of human rights as a framework for Internet
> governance.
>
> RE Access as a right....we've had extensive discussions on this for the
> Charter. At the moment, we've framed Internet access as a right because
> it's a constituent element of freedom of expression and other rights. Frank
> La Rue, the UN Special Rapporteur for freedom of opinion and expression,
> argues very strongly that access to the Internet is a fundamental component
> of freedom of expression in today's world.
>
> International law states that it is only permissible to place limitations
> or restrictions on expression in extremely narrow circumstances that are
> defined in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.
> National security and pubic order is included, but this doesn't mean that
> it can simply be used as an excuse. States must ensure that any limitation
> or restriction is provided for by clear and precise laws. They must
> demonstrate that the limitation or restriction is strictly necessary to meet
> the specific purpose. This means that any restriction must be carefully
> tailored to target the specific aim, must be narrowly defined, and must
> yield proportionately greater benefit to society than the harm that it
> causes to freedom of expression. Shutting down the Internet amidst popular
> protest in Egypt is clearly in violation of these principles.
>
> RE Rule of law....the Charter is pushing for rule of law on the
> Internet...it's too often ignored. So I agree with Ian...states have to
> have a court order to do anything that limits expression. Yes, states all
> over the world will continue to ignore this, and courts can act as mere
> rubber stampers. But that just means we should redouble our efforts to push
> for respect for established standards and procedures.
>
> In response to Sala's question, and for those unfamiliar with the Charter
> project...- the Charter of Human Rights and Principles for the Internet is
> an attempt to translate international human rights standards to apply to the
> Internet. It's a bit different from some similar initiatives in this area a
> number of ways:
>
> - Each article is firmly rooted in existing human rights standards. We're
> trying to harness the moral and legal weight of international human rights
> law to make sure that the document is as authoritative as possible.
>
> - To make the Charter useful for different groups, and also authoritative,
> the final Charter will consist of 3 documents:
> a) a set of overarching principles which set out the main standards that
> states should be adhering to;
> b) an explanatory document which explores the detail of each article - its
> roots in international law, whether it's a standard that is progressively
> realizable (e.g. universal accessibility) or immediate (absence of
> censorship).
> c) a matrix which breaks down the roles and responsibilities of different
> stakeholders, including private sector. Whilst human rights are only
> binding on states, John Ruggie's (the UN special representative on human
> rights and transnational corporations) framework giving companies
> responsibility to respect human rights is gaining increasing authority at
> the international level. We're trying to work out what that means in the
> context of the Internet.
>
> - We're trying to make it as comprehensive as possible - i.e. not just
> focusing on civil and political rights, but also upholding the principle of
> the indivisibility of rights - including economic, social and cultural
> rights too.The coalition is multi-stakeholder (or trying to be!!), with
> engagement in the process from individuals in the private, technical,
> government and civil society sectors.
>
> Unfortunately, the Charter isn't finished yet...we have a draft that we
> discussed in Vilnius, and plan to have a more finalized version for the next
> IGF. We're currently working out how we're going to finalise it over the
> coming months - consulting with relevant experts and different user
> communities etc. So please do join us if you'd like to get involved....we
> need your help! You can sign up to the IRP mailing list here:
> http://lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org/listinfo.cgi/irp-internetrightsandprinciples.org
>
> Finally, there's also the Global Network Initiative (GNI) that has already
> developed a code of conduct for companies operating in countries with
> limited human rights protections. Their principles are a good place to
> start I think. Whilst companies do have to respect national law, the
> Initiative outlines steps they should take e.g. risk assessments when going
> into countries, challenging any requests to restrict expression and privacy,
> being transparent about their activities etc.
>
> Apologies for the length of the email!
>
> All the best,
> Lisa
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [mailto:
> governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Lee W McKnight
> Sent: 30 January 2011 19:35
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Michael Gurstein
> Subject: RE: [governance] Egypt and Internet Governance
>
> Michael,
>
> I don't recall off-hand every last paragraph of the draft Charter of
> Internet Rights under discussion on the Internet Rights and Principles
> list...but wouldn't something along the lines you suggest be most easily
> promoted through that, perhaps by adding an additional paragraph or clause
> if needed?
>
> Which was already a topic for discussion at the next IGF right...
>
> Lee
> ________________________________________
> From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org [governance-request at lists.cpsr.org]
> On Behalf Of Michael Gurstein [gurstein at gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 11:09 AM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: RE: [governance] Egypt and Internet Governance
>
> I think that we need to see these as long term processes with multiple
> actors, influences, potential outcomes and so on.
>
> But there would clearly seem to be a need for a statement of
> principles/code
> of conduct with respect to access to/the opportunity to use the means of
> communication. That there will be opposition to such is hardly relevent to
> the articulation and civil society agitation in support of such a set of
> principles/code.
>
> That governments or whoever would insist that there were various kinds of
> clauses to ensure their ultimate authority in these areas is similarly
> irrelevant since as with Human Rights agreements/codes their presence acts
> as some sort of standard against which breaches can be measured and
> responded to and governments (and the private sector) can be held
> accountable.
>
> It is hard to see what in the area of Global Internet Governance could be
> of
> more importance than the setting in place of a process for the formulation
> and ratification of such an agreement.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: governance-request at lists.cpsr.org
> [mailto:governance-request at lists.cpsr.org] On Behalf Of Norbert Bollow
> Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 4:27 AM
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> Subject: Re: [governance] Egypt and Internet Governance
>
>
> > In message <20110130113619.A00C915C195 at quill.bollow.ch>, at 12:36:19
> > on
> > Sun, 30 Jan 2011, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> writes
> >
> > >I strongly support pushing for a "code of conduct" of some kind that
> > >incorporates this principle.
> >
> > Who drafts it, who signs up, and who polices it?
>
> It could be drafted by some kind of "dynamic coalition" process in the IGF
> context.
>
> Unless some countries are interested in creating a formal international
> treaty with some kind of enforcement provisions, it would be policed only
> to
> the extent that of course nothing will stop the legislature of any country
> from adding the principles of the "code of conduct" to the national laws.
>
> But even if this doesn't happen in any single country, even if following
> the
> "code of conduct" remains, from a legal perspective, entirely voluntary, I
> would expect that the document could still have a very significant
> practical
> impact.
>
> Just like many of IETF's RFCs have very significant practical impact even
> without them having been formally adopted by any national legislature, or
> even by any standardization organization with the kind of formal
> international recognition that e.g. ISO has. And there's definitely to
> "internet police" to enforce the RFCs.
>
> Greetings,
> Norbert ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
> http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20110201/2068767a/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
For all other list information and functions, see:
http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
http://www.igcaucus.org/
Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
More information about the Governance
mailing list