AW: [governance] Plagiarism and intellectual property

Thu Dec 15 16:48:03 EST 2011

Dear All

i cannot but subscribe to all the arguments Wolfgang is presenting in his comments. Thanks to him for having given such a substance to my initial message. For all the mentioned reasons -also in former mails- Guttengerg is NOT the mediator European CS and "European Values" deserve.

Once again -and sorry for Andrea- Mrs Kroes did a very big mistake and discredited the work done so far by the European bodies, i.a. the European Parliament. I do hope she will be informed about our discussion. 

Best

Jean-Louis Fullsack 

> Message du 15/12/11 11:19
> De : ""Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"" 
> A : governance at lists.cpsr.org, "Deirdre Williams" , governance at lists.cpsr.org, "Jovan Kurbalija" 
> Copie à : 
> Objet : AW: [governance] Plagiarism and intellectual property
> 
> Hi
> 
> let me add one point here which seems to me is important. There is no academic work which comes out of the box. Every academic author uses material which was produced by other authors. The right to quote (free of charge) is part of the right to freedom of expresssion. The question in the Guttenberg case was that he did not mention the sources where he had his ideas from. If he would have giveb the exact sources, this would have been okay. Probably a critical evaluation of the PhD would have come to the conclusion that he has good quatations but no own ideas. But this is another story. The core of the case which led to the outcry in the German academic community was his "unethical behaviour". 
> 
> There are pieces of academic work where you can find more quotations than text written by the author him/herself. This can be a creative contribution to the global knowledge because it is hard work to find and combine all the good ideas available from numerous authors around the globe. If the author combines the quotations in a creative way this is okay. But it is the duty of the author to point to the source where he had a certain text from. 
> 
> This is my problem with Guttenbergs appointment. He has disqualified himself with his unethical behaviour. Civil society in rigid regimes fighting for civil rights and freedoms, get their legitimacy to a high degree from their "ethical approach" to do the "good things". The risk with Mr. Guttenbergs support is that with his lost credibility, he undemines also the credibility of the groups he wants to support. For a surpressive regime it is easy to argue if they combat their dissidends - which they label as "criminals" - that those people are inspired and supported by a guy who lost his job is as a result of "unethical behaviour" and has at home supported Internet blocking and surveillance. This could become very counterproductive for the Internet freedom activists in rigid regimes. 
> 
> Wolfgang
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Von: governance at lists.cpsr.org im Auftrag von Deirdre Williams
> Gesendet: Mi 14.12.2011 20:42
> An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Jovan Kurbalija
> Betreff: [governance] Plagiarism and intellectual property
> 
> 
> Jovan and Norbert, 
> Norbert first - of course I agree with you. How can you add to 'the total of human knowledge' if you are apparently incapable of making a distinction between what you have thought and written and what somebody else has thought and written?
> Jovan - I read the 2007 discussion with interest. I wonder whether in fact it's 85% of students or 85% of work submitted - but then I never was much good at statistics. 
> I thought perhaps that I was forcing an irrelevant digression from what this list is about, but no, although I have changed the subject line to make the point clearer.
> Our world, virtual and physical, places great store on property and on ownership. Our societies disapprove of and punish those who don't respect what is implied by 'ownership' - the thieves. The production of intellectual property is really HARD work; surely our sympathies lie with the creator rather than with the person who stole and claimed ownership. Ownership is not about money. It admits sharing. In fact the person whose work was plagiarised was expressing 'willingness to share' by the act of publication. He or she displayed trust and asked for honesty.
> Jovan sent me off on a nostalgia trip to a rhyme I had learned as a child:
> "When gorse is out of blossom,"
> (Its prickles bare of gold)
> "Then kissing's out of fashion,"
> Said country-folk of old.
> Thank you CM Barker, and Google for knowing about it as well. What does our discussion have to do with gorse (or kissing)? Well the point is that gorse always has blossoms, and kissing's always in fashion. So is honesty. Honesty is the social Higgs boson that holds everything together. Without at least some honesty I believe that societies would crumble and fail. Plagiarism is a fancy name for lack of honesty, as it is also a fancy name for theft. If we change the rules to allow plagiarism it seems to me that we condone theft and encourage dishonesty and end up having to redesign our society completely. And the way I see it we have very little, if anything, to gain from the change.
> Deirdre
> 
> On 14 December 2011 13:02, Jovan Kurbalija wrote:
> 
> 
> Deirdre,
> 
> You reminded me of an interesting discussion on plagiarism triggered by the news that 85% of university students in the United States are involved in some sort of plagiarism. Can 85% of students be wrong? Should we invest in a better anti plagiarism software or start considering a new educational paradigm? Like with many other policy issues, there is a mix of causes and effects. Here is the link to the discussion from 2007 which is still valid today: http://wp.me/p81We-m
> 
> Regards, Jovan 
> 
> 
> On 12/14/11 4:12 PM, Deirdre Williams wrote: 
> 
> This discussion interests me for a slightly different reason. 
> I have been wondering for some time now whether the norm about plagiarism isn't shifting as the norm about privacy seems to be doing. Privacy is still important but the things considered "private" seem to have changed. With the issue of plagiarism - we are being encouraged to "remix" from the existing. Does this carry with it the idea that, once published, information is "free"? When I asked this question on the Diplo ning I was assured that the "old" rule still obtains - if you borrow someone else's intellectual property you must acknowledge where/who it came from.
> But now I wonder again - in changing times is plagiarism not as wicked as it used to be?
> Deirdre
> 
> 
> On 14 December 2011 10:36, Norbert Bollow wrote:
> 
> 
> > Given that the general reaction to this appointment could not have come as a
> > surprise to Mme. Kroes or her staff one really has to ask why it was made.
> 
> 
> Indeed. And she's legally obligated to give the reasons (when the
> question is formally asked) why such a scandalous person was chosen
> instead of conducting a more normal kind of search for a well-qualified
> and suitable person to fill this role:
> 
> According to Article 41 of the EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights [1],
> which has been ratified by all EU member countries as part of the
> Lisbon Treaty, there is a right to good administration which includes
> in particular "the obligation of the administration to give reasons
> for its decisions".
> 
> [1] http://www.europarl.europa.eu/charter/
> 
> Greetings,
> Norbert
> 
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