[governance] SOPA or no SOPA

[parminder]

On Monday 12 December 2011 11:10 AM, Karl Auerbach wrote:
> On 12/10/2011 06:44 AM, parminder wrote:
>
>    
>> We need countervailing systems of political and democratic power for the
>> global Internet.
>>      
> You already have them.
>
> With regard to DNS, any person, or group of persons, is free to set up
> their own DNS roots,

Karl,

The unfortunate problem is that a non CIRs issue of global governance 
(here, in my quoted email, private and extra territorial IP enforcement) 
so often gets responded to by a CIR management solution. I have endless 
(non) debates with McTim over similar lines. Why should discussions on 
so many other more important issues of global Internet governance remain 
forever hostage to the logics and sensitivities of CIR management space.

  Even if I were to accept your argument, the issue remains that unlike 
DNS, a group of people cannot set up their own IP regime that is immune 
to IP regimes that are otherwise operating over them, de jure or de 
facto. I have asked for countervailing systems of political and 
democratic power specifically against US's unilateral enforcement of its 
law over other countries. I dont see how this problem gets solved by 
your response.

As for CIR governance, which I insist is a rather different kind of 
issue: In fact, perhaps unlike you, and I respect your views, I do not 
have any problem with a single root and a single DNS, or even for ICANN 
to be managing it. I only have a problem with UN gov oversight of ICANN 
and applicaiton of US law to ICANN. Just that part should move to an 
international jurisdiction, with nothing else changing substantially. 
This is a simple, clear and, in my view, wholly reasonable demand.

We all know that sooner or later, a US court is going to issue a 
direction to ICANN  to act in a certain way, in pursuance of upholding 
US law in one of the thousand possible areas that can cause such an 
order, and ICANN will have to do it, and all the feigned innocence of 
ICANN's globalness and neutrality will be gone up in thin air in a 
moment. And, hopefully later than sooner, US government itself will be 
caught into a high stake security 'situation' whereby it will just have 
to do something vis a vis the CIRs that it exercises control over, in 
negation of what it likes to make everyone believe that it will never 
do. I have no idea why we must all wait for that time to scramble to 
solve the problem that we know is already there.

parminder
>   populate them with whatever top level domains
> (TLD)s they like, provision their own DNS servers, and point their
> computers at those servers.  And DNSSEC will still work.
>
> As for IP addresses - this is a bit more expensive:  Anyone can
> establish their own routing systems with their own links and routers and
> using their own distinct IPv4 (or IPv6) address space.  Connectivity to
> "the rest of the world" would be via application level gateways/proxies
> - most modern protocols don't mind proxies or application level gateways.
>
> Of course these may be exactly the same paths that those who wish to
> exert increased control will chose to follow - it is an attractive path
> to the forces of control because those proxies and application level
> gateways represent points of control traffic - places to monitor, places
> to limit, places to tax, places to block.
>
> (Moreover, in these times of economic distress, this path also means
> that existing investments in IPv4 equipment can remain in place and by
> re-using the entire IPv4 address space as many times as one wants it
> eliminates the IPv4 address exhaustion issue.)
>
> What I am saying is that there are forces, from both sides of the
> "liberty" equation, that are combining to push today's singular
> end-to-end internet into an internet of internets.
>
> 	--karl--
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>       governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, visit:
>       http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
>
> For all other list information and functions, see:
>       http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
> To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
>       http://www.igcaucus.org/
>
> Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
>
>
>    
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20111212/9aac1191/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing

For all other list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
     http://www.igcaucus.org/

Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t