[governance] regulating the digital space - whose laws apply, and whose do not

[McTim]

On Mon, Aug 29, 2011 at 9:29 PM, Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 8/29/11, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
> > Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> This is not really true.  As several of my past posts have
> >> established, without any contradiction on this particular point, the
> >> internet presently (and in the past) relies upon many governmental
> >> laws in the form of contract, property, and intellectual property laws
> >> to facilitate its expansion (to be sure) and arguably to support its
> >> existence as we know it.
> >
> > I'm sure that I'm not alone in disagreeing with this statement
> > as formulated here as well as with your claim that you have
> > "established" it. As a clear counter-example, I would point to
> > the re-establishment of the Internet in Libya.
>
> Norbert, without something like a "Uniform Commercial Code" (as it is
> called in the United States) and its legal system supporting the
> clearance of checks or credit card transactions, only cash
> transactions are available and e-commerce as most know it collapses.
> The laws in this area are not the ONLY thing required, but it is
> required.  I'll bet that Libya, in whatever shape it may be in, still
> has legal structures allowing for the collection of funds other than
> cash, and as such it is the technical side of the internet that was
> interrupted, and not the legal system.
>
> I do realize that the role of law, especially when it functions well,
> is invisible to most everyone.  That does not mean it doesn't exist.
> The reason I say that this is "established" is because it is not
> reasonably debatable that such laws exist, and that they are
> structural supports for all or part of the internet.
>
> You can claim that silence is not consent, and refer to an inability
> on the part of yourself and others to keep up with my volume of fact
> and argument, but that is not "debate".  Even now, when you have taken
> the time to respond, you have not pointed to a single instance or even
> a likely instance where the internet functions without any law to
> support its operations.  If you did, you'd be pointing to an all-cash
> economy, and a key feature of the internet -- transactions over great
> distance -- would be greatly hampered or defeated.  Even for
> non-commercial internet activity, there needs to be payment for
> internet connectivity (unless the government provides it for free, in
> which case the government's quite involved in the internet in that
> way, then).
>
> To disprove what I say, show me an internet company without lawyers,
> show me the internet with cash-only transactions, show me a part of
> the internet that does not use contracts and does not put customers
> into collections, nor use the governmental court system.  That and
> more would be required to prove an internet without law.  But if you
> could do that,  I will then show you an "internet" that is not the
> internet as any of us know it on this list. It's an internet that
> nowhere exists.
>
> I'll mail you $100US if you can show a real example of the above.
>


rootserver operators don't get paid and most only have a "handshake
agreement" to run a rootserver.  They do it for the good of the Internet.


-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
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