On NN workshop RE: Re: [governance] Three IGC workshops ) NN FYI DIPLO

Sat Apr 16 00:02:30 EDT 2011

Regarding the distinction made between participant and service 
neutrality, FCC regulations as well as Norway's guidelines (as any other 
serious attempt at codifying what is NN) clearly makes allowance for 
different treatment for different kinds of services, if so required for 
'public interest', this term being key. So, there is considerably less 
confusion about what constitutes NN than is often made out to be. About 
whether NN should be applied fully, or not (as in case of FCC's 
treatment of mobile Internet) remains contested though. This is not the 
same as having confusions about what NN means. I think this latter 
debate needs a rest for us to really look at why NN and the nature of 
public interest involved.

(As for the below discussed case about participant neutrality being 
masked as service neutrality, any kind of serious application of a 
social regulation - as opposed to technical ones - will require looking 
at such one off cases as one off cases, tested against larger basic 
principles involved, in light of what is public interest. It is 
impossible to fix all such thing with complete precision in advance in 
any social law or regulation, something I do understand doesnt sit very 
well with minds trained for technical levels of precise clarity, . So 
lets not keep blaming an insufficient definition of NN  for not going 
forward on this key global and national IG issue.)

Parminder

On Friday 15 April 2011 11:19 PM, George Sadowsky wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm not sure if what I'm going to insert below pertains directly to 
> the discussion on this list, but I found it useful.
>
> Dave Crocker makes a differentiation between two different concepts of 
> what is called net neutrality:
>
>> Discussion about "neutrality" needs to distinguish between Service 
>> Neutrality and Participant Neutrality.
>>
>>
>> Participant Neutrality means that email from or to me gets treated 
>> the same as mail from or to you. Equally, web pages I retrieve from 
>> Google get treated the same as web pages I retrieve from Yahoo! or 
>> from ietf.org <http://ietf.org>.  Differential handling is based on 
>> IP Address or Domain Name.
>>
>> Service Neutrality means that email, web, voip telephone calls, 
>> real-time remote sensor data, and every other type of "application" 
>> get treated equally. Differential handling is based on the IP 
>> Protocol field or the TCP/UDP Port number.  Real service neutrality 
>> means that it is not possible for the network infrastructure to 
>> support quality of service guarantees, such as inter-packet arrival 
>> times (jitter.)
>>
>> The challenge of service neutrality is technical, such as dealing 
>> with the potential that preference for one service will destroy the 
>> ability to use another service.
>>
>> The challenge of participant neutrality is political, since it 
>> relates to potentially unfair treatment of different people or 
>> organizations.
>>
>> An example of Participant Neutrality that can be masked as Service 
>> Neutrality is when two organizations have competing application 
>> protocols and one is given preference.  The preference appears to be 
>> based on the protocol but is really concerned with who is operating 
>> the service.
>> Discussions about net neutrality typically fail to make this basic 
>> distinction and therefore typically wind up with people talking past 
>> each other or, worse, imposing policies that really do restrict the 
>> ability of the Internet to properly support adequate operation of a 
>> service.
>
> Further, it may be the case that you can have one or the other, but 
> not both simultaneously.  I haven't thought that through, but if it's 
> true, then there's a whole space of net neutrality components that 
> need more detailed analysis.
>
> George Sadowsky
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> At 6:25 PM +0300 4/15/11, McTim wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Adam Peake <ajp at glocom.ac.jp> wrote:
>> >> Foo
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Fouad Bajwa
>> >> <<mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com>fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> It would be advisable that for once, this workshop should only 
>> give the
>> >> developing world perspective.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Is there such a thing?
>> >>
>> >> I've never seen one.  Here in Africa, it's just not on many agendas.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > Interesting point.  McTim, how about asking on the kictanet list 
>> and see if
>> > people there (various stakeholders) think it's an issue worth 
>> discussing,
>> > perhaps some might support the workshop.
>>
>> NB: this is the same point made by PJS, just comes at it from a
>> different perspective.
>>
>> Sure I can do that.  How shall I/we define what we mean by  NN??
>>
>> I think we are all for NN, just some of us have different definitions.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> McTim
>> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A
>> route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
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