<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#333333">
<font face="sans-serif">Regarding the distinction made between
participant and service neutrality, FCC regulations as well as
Norway's guidelines (as any other serious attempt at codifying
what is NN) clearly makes allowance for different treatment for
different kinds of services, if so required for 'public interest',
this term being key. So, there is considerably less confusion
about what constitutes NN than is often made out to be. </font>About
whether NN should be applied fully, or not (as in case of FCC's
treatment of mobile Internet) remains contested though. This is not
the same as having confusions about what NN means. I think this
latter debate needs a rest for us to really look at why NN and the
nature of public interest involved. <br>
<br>
(As for the below discussed case about participant neutrality being
masked as service neutrality, any kind of serious application of a
social regulation - as opposed to technical ones - will require
looking at such one off cases as one off cases, tested against
larger basic principles involved, in light of what is public
interest. It is impossible to fix all such thing with complete
precision in advance in any social law or regulation, something I do
understand doesnt sit very well with minds trained for technical
levels of precise clarity, . So lets not keep blaming an
insufficient definition of NN for not going forward on this key
global and national IG issue.)<br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<br>
On Friday 15 April 2011 11:19 PM, George Sadowsky wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:p06200764c9ce33f0cac3@%5B10.0.1.6%5D"
type="cite">
<style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
--></style>
<title>Re: On NN workshop RE: Re: [governance] Three IGC
workshop</title>
<div>All,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm not sure if what I'm going to insert below pertains
directly
to the discussion on this list, but I found it useful.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dave Crocker makes a differentiation between two different
concepts of what is called net neutrality:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="">Discussion about "neutrality"
needs to distinguish between Service Neutrality and Participant
Neutrality.<br>
<br>
<br>
Participant Neutrality means that email from or to me gets
treated the
same as mail from or to you. Equally, web pages I retrieve from
Google
get treated the same as web pages I retrieve from Yahoo! or from
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://ietf.org">ietf.org</a>.
Differential handling is
based on IP Address or Domain Name.<br>
<br>
Service Neutrality means that email, web, voip telephone calls,
real-time remote sensor data, and every other type of
"application" get treated equally. Differential handling is
based on the IP Protocol field or the TCP/UDP Port number. Real
service neutrality means that it is not possible for the network
infrastructure to support quality of service guarantees, such as
inter-packet arrival times (jitter.)<br>
<br>
The challenge of service neutrality is technical, such as
dealing with
the potential that preference for one service will destroy the
ability
to use another service.<br>
<br>
The challenge of participant neutrality is political, since it
relates
to potentially unfair treatment of different people or
organizations.<br>
<br>
An example of Participant Neutrality that can be masked as
Service
Neutrality is when two organizations have competing application
protocols and one is given preference. The preference appears
to
be based on the protocol but is really concerned with who is
operating
the service.<br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="">Discussions about net neutrality
typically fail to make this basic distinction and therefore
typically
wind up with people talking past each other or, worse, imposing
policies that really do restrict the ability of the Internet to
properly support adequate operation of a service.</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Further, it may be the case that you can have one or the
other,
but not both simultaneously. I haven't thought that through,
but
if it's true, then there's a whole space of net neutrality
components
that need more detailed analysis.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>George Sadowsky</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<span></span>~~~~~~~~</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At 6:25 PM +0300 4/15/11, McTim wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="">On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:52 AM,
Adam
Peake <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp"><ajp@glocom.ac.jp></a> wrote:<br>
>> Foo<br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Fouad Bajwa<br>
>>
<<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com"><mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fouadbajwa@gmail.com">fouadbajwa@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> It would be advisable that for once, this workshop
should
only give the<br>
>> developing world perspective.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Is there such a thing?<br>
>><br>
>> I've never seen one. Here in Africa, it's just not on
many agendas.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> Interesting point. McTim, how about asking on the kictanet
list and see if<br>
> people there (various stakeholders) think it's an issue
worth
discussing,<br>
> perhaps some might support the workshop.<br>
<br>
NB: this is the same point made by PJS, just comes at it from a<br>
different perspective.<br>
<br>
Sure I can do that. How shall I/we define what we mean by
NN??<br>
<br>
I think we are all for NN, just some of us have different
definitions.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
McTim<br>
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it
is.
A<br>
route indicates how we get there." Jon Postel<br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
<br>
For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a><br>
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
<br>
Translate this email:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a></blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>