[governance] Less than 10% of IPv4 Addresses Remain

[George Sadowsky]

Fouad,

It's worth reading McTim's responses carefully.  In particular, there 
is room in RIR space for anyone who wants to make responsible 
comments to participate.  The RIRs are not closed organizations; they 
serve the ISPs of the region by administering address allocations for 
the benefit of their members, ISPs, and ultimately the users.  They 
do have administrative costs that they must recover.  However, those 
costs, as they are distributed down to the tail ISPs, are very 
minimal compared with almost all other costs involved in being a part 
of the network (sometimes even including tea and coffee  :-)  ).

One of the most important functions that lists like this can perform, 
as well as meetings such as IGF, is to ensure that participants 
understand how the current system works.  An accurate understanding 
of the current system is really important for discussion to lead to 
useful progress.

Regards,

George

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


At 3:51 PM +0300 1/22/10, McTim wrote:
>Fouad,
>
>On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 3:20 PM, Fouad Bajwa 
><<mailto:fouadbajwa at gmail.com>fouadbajwa at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hi,
>That is actually a mis-perception. It costs to join APNIC and receive
>number resources.
>
>
>I labor under no misconception regarding how the RIRs operate.
>
>I am am active member of several RIR mailing lists.  Today for 
>example, I have received a dozen or more mail from ARIN, RIPE and 
>AfrINIC lists.
>
>
>
><http://www.apnic.net/services/become-a-member/how-much-does-it-cost>http://www.apnic.net/services/become-a-member/how-much-does-it-cost
>
>If you visit the APNIC frontpage at 
><http://www.apnic.net>http://www.apnic.net, you will see
>under the heading Internet Resources: How Much Does it Cost? and you
>will see the structure they have. All ISPs and service providers in
>the region have to buy their membership and then this trickles down to
>the end-users as well.
>
>
>Local Internet Registries should operate on a cost recovery basis, 
>some do and some inevitably make IP addresses a profit center.
>
>
>
>Secondly there is no system for Civil Society
>and Non-Commercial User engagement
>
>
>This is where the misconception is entirely yours.  Anyone can join 
>the policy discussion lists and have an impact on Internet numbering 
>resource policy.  Currently, I do not represent any ISP or LIR, yet 
>participate in developing policies in multiple regions.  Really, the 
>system is open to anyone, technically minded or otherwise.  Milton's 
>experience in the ARIN region also prove this, as he has had a not 
>insignificant impact on ARIN policy making since he joined the list.
>
>
>
>, more or less, a structure coming
>down from the parent number resource system.
>
>
>Nope, completely bottom up.  Where do you get these false notions from?
>
>
>
>Actually its sold to APNIC Members that charge quite a fees that in
>most cases is far more than the amount of income for many in our part
>of the world. Have a look at the Membership Charges of APNIC.
>
>
>IP addresses are NOT sold.  You should read more completely:
>
><http://www.apnic.net/services/become-a-member/how-much-does-it-cost>http://www.apnic.net/services/become-a-member/how-much-does-it-cost
>
>"APNIC does not sell Internet resources such as IP addresses.
>
>Instead, resources holders are granted the right to use these public 
>resources. However, APNIC charges administration fees to assist in 
>the management of this resource and the provision of services it 
>provides the community."
>
>I have tracked their fees for many years, and find their system to 
>be very fair. 
>
>What you must understand is that for an ISP that wants IP blocks, 
>one does not have to join a RIR to get them, they can simply get an 
>assignment or sub-allocation from their upstream provider.  For 
>larger ISPs, the cost of joining and getting an allocation is a tiny 
>fraction of their monthly revenue.  It's part of the cost of doing 
>business, like serving tea to the staff  (I know because the last 
>ISP I worked for actually had a larger tea/sugar/milk budget than 
>for the AfriNIC fees).
>
>
>
>The perception you shared is what is commonly shared amongst the
>Internet community from the developed world.
>
>
>This perception is also widely shared in the developing world.
>
>
>Its not an apple pie for
>us, really, we have some really tough problems here.
>
>
>Believe me I know what those problems are and work on them daily 
>here in Africa.  The RIRs fees are NOT one of the problems.
>
>
>Its not how critically we think but what resources we have access to
>without Moolah (money) in between. The system is very vague indeed for
>the people that see it from outside but from the inside, you pay, you
>get.
>
>
>
>Do you honestly think that adding another layer of bureaucracy would 
>make the system cheaper?
>
>
>
>I rest my case.
>
>
>I find no merit in your "case".
>
>
>--
>Cheers,
>
>McTim
>"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A 
>route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>
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