[governance] Re: [cccun] op ed query: Do reactions to privacy and identityissues vary with age? New lawsuit from West Coast netizens v. the big G.?.

Sun Feb 21 11:16:42 EST 2010

Linda and James,

We are quick in our minds to give definition and to classify. It helps us in basic cognitive thought.  But sometimes words have an "aura" within themselves. Cyber is just such a combination of letters. Some words conjur. Usually it takes a string of words. So a word/suffix/prefix/adjective/noun... Like Cyber is very special. Usually the meaning of the word gives understanding --- perhaps sometimes words give imagination. If we put too fine a point of definition on such a word perhaps it is like caging the Phoenix.

Clearly I give too much respect to words,,,, but then again, by using them I can bring peace or war or tears or laughter and best of all love.

--- On Sun, 2/21/10, linda misek-falkoff <ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com> wrote:

From: linda misek-falkoff <ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com>
Subject: [governance] Re: [cccun] *op ed query*: Do reactions to privacy and identityissues vary with age? New lawsuit from West Coast netizens v. the big G.?.
To: "James T. Mc Guiness" <jamesmcguiness at cox.net>
Cc: cccun at yahoogroups.com, jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com, judylear at aol.com, respectful.interfaces at gmail.com, ldmisekfalkoff.2 at gmail.com, lehto.paul at gmail.com, cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net, governance at lists.cpsr.org, adfalkoff at gmail.com
Date: Sunday, February 21, 2010, 12:58 PM

----- respectful  interfaces e-note  022010 - cyberspace - -----

Please note the link flush left on the next line for one sort of reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics

Dear James,

Thank you, your post is terrific and I would like to share it with others. And we've met now.  Well met!

You so appropriately raise many challenging and frontal issues and I say this not to flatter but with some genuine appreciation - though the lore is that flattery rarely fails in full.

I am going to take some time before responding  to your individual posits and I think others will also be intrigued.

I respond here, of course welcoming feedback,  only re the linguistic or psycholinguistic (themselves perhaps historically fleeting)  terms that start with "cyber."  

Except for one of the U.N. Security "canines" at N.Y. Headquarters that bears this name and thus maybe sort of an absolute in this time/space slice, is it not the case that since at least Norbert Weiner's '48 "cybernetics"  re. control and systems theory  (we can check this) the term  has attached itself to electronic communications in descriptive not necessarily prescriptive fashion (?) - as many terms do,operationally, as tools (some say tools of thoughts).  

Excellent if it can expand beyond the narrow bandwidth of the Web or the Internet -  and not indeed  shrink down to a hardened set of frozen, non-evolving  verbal  cliches.

So, accord on many of your challenging points. Thanks ever so much for your post - and your presence., itself supporting an  enlarging evolution of concepts and facts.

With sincere regards, and *respectfully interfacing*, Linda M F. 

On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 2:13 AM, James T. Mc Guiness <jamesmcguiness at cox.net> wrote:

Dear Dr. Misek-Falkoff,

I don't believe we've met as I was active in the CCC as their newsletter editor back in the 90's and, though I've paid my dues to revive my interest, I've moved to Virginia and am not likely to be showing up at any general meetings any time soon . I felt compelled to comment (even if I'm far afield of the intent), I have made cyberspace and cyber culture theoretics my passion for almost two decades and just hearing or reading expression of issues "cyber", jump-starts my interest.  

In my view, the phenomenon we see spun around the press as "cyberspace" and it's offshoots such as "cyber-libel" is little more than sensationalist "buzzwordism" as cyberspace is still an unrealized potential far beyond what the Internet amounts to. Forgive my forwardness and please don't take this as a personal criticism as it seems your writing is a reaction to floating misnomers and not a personal assertions of their validity. If it's OK with you I just like to share insights and vision to voice my perspective on the subject. Firstly, there is no such thing as cyberspace. I wish there were but there isn't. I hope to be part of creating the real thing. The Internet can not live up to the phenomenon called cyberspace. The Internet is an expansion of a single computer to all whom avail themselves to it--a grand extension of Microsoft DOS, an alpha-numeric internal computer-focused set of formalities. So-called search engines are sets of rather limited
 algorithms only cable of bring back "pages" in which the alpha-numeric criteria appears in the name or content of "computer" files. This makes finding information a process in which one may retrieve hundreds of "pages"--all designed with no universal design criteria which often amount to a different interface for each site retrieved. It leaves a lot of "browsing"--none of which may produce a satisfactory result. The are of course public 
forums" and conventionalizing like "Face Book" et al in which people may post directed messages open to perusal and commentary by other persons. And there are "blogs" as well--running journals or series of commentary in which the righter basically pacifies them self by telling them self they've published something whereas in fact they have filed a document that one may stumble over or not. 

What real cyberspace is starts with the knowledge that no one has yet designed cyberspace per se. Cyberspace is analogous to a beehive--no one bee designs the hive but the result of their collective actions build a structure that keeps swelling as small groups work on focused tasks. Cyberspace is a potential rather than an entity. It is based upon the collective endeavor of the myriad efforts to develop technology though not specifically and purposefully to achieve a comprehensive phenomenon in which collective ideals well beyond today's Internet are achievable. An example of a cyberspace interface as opposed to an Internet browser would be to, say, use Google Earth s an interface to the world and create separate strata which are linked to the geography of the planet in which one can turn on and off the various strata so that commerce is not mixed with something like the eco-sphere, or socio-sphere et al. In this modality people return to being
 deliberate on what specifically they are trying to do and make the computer a tool of exploration and connection with other entities. The Internet, conversely, is a device designed in large fashion to do the thinking for the user and provide the user with a house of cards of information in which the person learns no navigational technique and, I assume, is left to marvel at the technological ability to capture information willy-nilly and the peruse it--establishing no sense of navigation or connection with geography et al. I believe we are in the dark ages of the Informations Age, and until cyberspace become a matter of idealistic deign meant to improve the human who uses it, will will continue to Twitter and while away millions of hours getting a "NO" whereas with design rather than default of a true cyberspace beyond the Internet, we will never settle for "NO" and build a progressive culture that prepares, builds and always expect that query to be
 answered "YES". Tis is just a part of how I envision what I call a sustainable progress engine in which I have inventoried many nuances that would help the community that uses the real cyberspace break away to a new level of modernity in which the world would be forced to choose which era it lives in--the new progress? or the come-see come-sa era of "acceptable NO's".  Respectfully and sincerely, James T. McGuiness  

linda misek-falkoff wrote: 

Dear Colleagues:

A while back I posted an announcement when Google's BUZZ started buzzing.  It came supplied in my gmail one day, already stocked with buzz buddies - as in "six degrees of separation" calculated by automata (computational "intelligence").  Well it's no secret I've over 50 years in computing and have seen a lot of social and other including antisocial networking "CyberSpaceWise."  I wondered electronically with one of our colleagues here, how is this different? One aspect that occurred to me was just simple set stuff. You start with an empty set or a non-empty set like an  instant community.  Or maybe index origin 0 or 1, I'm not an expert on these math things per se; others here are.

Have you dabbled? Buzzed (and also perhaps embeddedly as R.P. has, still tweeted)? Hard to resist jumping in to test "waters" or is it "tides.".

I'm biased a bit yes, and very concerned with privacy but ... older I get more interested in potential networking; had my days taking cyberlibel (read also identity theft through misrepresentation) Cert. Petitions to the Washington Supremes (said with reverence). Still (the bias)  I'm curious. But yes still "on the third hand" feel a bit moved in on and concerned.  And I imagine many older and younger and midder persons might feel just the opposite; enraged to find they're being followed and can follow (stalk) by machines (we hope its machines) matchmaking. And if they try to eliminate or reduce the (can we call it  social group?) what other side-effects might be triggered? 

e-perish the e-thought.

"AnyOlTechWay", Google's allegedly been sued with a CAass action complaint (not yet e-surfaced?) from it looks like a lady in silicon valley area, in the name of many millions of gmail users,  

Request: whoever first sees the actual (said to be Federal) Complaint on the Net, please post a link?

For some time it's seemed the interfaces of computing with law might come up here. I've moderated a cyberlibel list for several years, in the area of tort law mainly, and with this note will scamper over there on this one to see what folks think.  In fact, via this email as it isn't apparent that will violate privacy ... hope you agree. At least - such is not "intended."

Enjoy your weekend!  If you are going out there via social networking, don't talk to strangers; or do.
Best wishes and *Respectfully Interfacing*
LDMF.

For identification only:

> Founder/Director *Respectful Interfaces*; 
> Member, Board, Secretary (Officer) - Communications Coordination Committee for the
> U.N.;
> World Education Fellowship;
> Member Committees on disability, ageing, health, values, development, Gray Panthers, Committee on Mental Health Media and ITC, Discrimination SubComs.
> President, National Disability Party (NDP); Steering Seat, International Disability Caucus;
> Persons with Pain Intl., co-founded with Carol J. Levy; 
> ICT multiple decades - authored and taught original GML tages - became HTML; developed internet law on cyberlibel, reputation management etc.
> Other affiliations on Request.
>
> n.b.:

> -  You are welcome to join *Respectful Interfaces.* The *Respectful
> Interfaces* Coda is: "Achieving Dialogue While Cherishing Diversity" (ask
> about event or continuing leadership interning).

> - Communication, Cooperation and Collaboration are core values of the CCC/UN.

P.S. While still in initial development -  you are welcome to visit the startup (not yet with alternative text or captioning) *Respectful Interfaces* website  - in order to browse, make requests, join in, and send suggestions to  respectful.interfaces at gmail.com.  To sample *respectful Interfaces* as an enterprise framework, with references to CCC/UN and WEF, click here: http://wp.me/PFqR6-K

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