AW: [governance] ICANN/USG Affirmation of Commitments

Fri Oct 2 14:57:41 EDT 2009

Paul 

what is your definition of legitimacy in a global world? Are there other soruces of legitimacy than one man one vote elections? And how to organize such elections globally (with 1.4 billion Chinese people who want certainly to have a vote)? 

And what is your definition of accountability? A single master-slave relationship? And in this case who will be the ultimate master and how the master gets the legitimacy to act on behalf of 2 billion Internet users in the public interest? 

Thanks

Wolfgang

________________________________

Von: Paul Lehto [mailto:lehto.paul at gmail.com]
Gesendet: Fr 02.10.2009 19:37
An: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Roland Perry
Betreff: Re: [governance] ICANN/USG Affirmation of Commitments

The bottom line is that every remnant of DEMOCRATIC accountability has
been stripped from ICANN.  Whatever remains appears to be merely
advisory, which has no power ultimately at all, but even if something
is created that DOES have power, it's most definitely NOT democratic.
THis is the coup de grace for privatization of the internet, which
means that the public interest can NEVER truly exist because the
private players on the internet are all larger corporations, whose
charters and legal structure require them to pursue one single thing
with a single-minded intensity -- profit for their shareholders (or,
in the case of nonprofits, whatever educational or charitable goal is
defined there).  Although nonprofits are definitely much more
public-interest minded, at the end of the day no nonprofit can
legitimately claim to represent the PUBLIC INTEREST -- only
democratically elected politicians can do that, and only if they are
behaving correctly as well.   Thus, no matter who (if anybody)
controls ICANN outside ICANN's board of directors, it isn't
democratic, we can be certain of that.

Thus, it's very disturbing to me that there's a giveaway of a huge
asset (for public interest protection purposes) like ICANN and they
didn't even SELL it or auction it off to get money for taxpayers NOR
did they transfer it to a democratically accountable global
organization with real power over ICANN (the best choice).

What I'm saying is that whoever effectively controls ICANN, it
certainly isn't the people of the United States of America, nor is it
the people of several nations, and it is definitely not the people of
the entire globe.  Thus, without a way for people to vote (ultimately,
even if a long process) to elect politicians with a mandate to
restructure or differently regulate ICANN, there is no public control
of ICANN, and thus ICANN has achieved independence from democracy or
democratic control itself.  And, ICANN has done so specifically
without creating any real substitute for the control of the US
government.

For what it's worth, "Advisory Boards" no matter how seriously they
are or seem to be taken, are a joke on the level of actual control.
They're free labor to the organization that ultimately can do whatever
it wants to and the advisors have no cause to complain, since they are
merely advisors, after all.   Thus, ICANN freely announces its
"independence" which is another way of announcing its separation from
democratic control of all kinds.  NOTHING THAT IS A PUBLIC SERVANT OF
THE PUBLIC INTEREST IS "INDEPENDENT" OR SEPARATE.

Thus, the announcement is a game of sleight of hand, in which they are
purporting to create global accountability, but most definitely and
clearly are not, because there's no democracy left in it.  The only
powers that be outside democracy are corporations.  Some or many will
cheer that the US government is taking its hands off, but at least the
people in the US could push for public interest policies and make them
stick if it became a big enough campaign issue.  But now, even that
limited possibility is gone.   The shell of independence for ICANN has
been moved, but underneath that shell is no real accountability for
ICANN to the global community.

 On 10/1/09, Roland Perry <roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:
> In message
> <76f819dd0910011242u2d26722eg4cac8f606ece0282 at mail.gmail.com>, at
> 12:42:19 on Thu, 1 Oct 2009, Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com> writes
>>It doesn't matter how diverse the "stakeholders" are in their country
>>of origin, race, creed, sex, or what have you, if the stakeholders and
>>the public as a whole do not have a CONTROL mechanism.  The
>>elimination of all remaining control mechanisms (elections, as an
>>indirect control) is precisely what's being accomplished with the
>>agreement between the US Commerce Department and ICANN to make them
>>essentially independent, subject only to an advisory board.
>
> I'm not sure what this has to do with the GAC members.
>
> Are you suggesting that the ultimate control be given over to ALAC,
> rather than GAC?
>
> Just curious, I don't have a "position" of my own regarding this.
>
>>With politicians, every communication to them is utterly toothless if
>>it idoes not carry (as it always does) an implied threat that one will
>>vote the poltician out of office if they don't do the right thing.
>>With the new ICANN structure, even this vestigial remedy (attenuated
>>as it was by the insulation of the commerce department from the
>>electorate) is eliminated in every meaningful sense.
>>
>>I'd be the first to welcome true and real global governance regarding
>>the internet.  The fact that they've put in the semblance of "global"
>>but zero "governance" means that the shift is an abdication of all
>>public, democratic control, even if that control was improperly
>>limited to a single country, the USA.  Even more importantly, there's
>>no mechanism with which to fight to CREATE true control on the global
>>level in favor of the public interest.
>>
>>Thus, we can't fight, lobby or progress from the new posture of an
>>independent ICANN to a situation of true global control/governance
>>without (1) a nearly unprecedented act (in the history of Power) to
>>voluntarily create genuine and real accountability on a global scale,
>>OR (2) a revolution or revolt.  And just how does one have a
>>revolution or revolt against a corporation at all, much less a
>>corporation that has a monopoly on what it does, and which we all need
>>to exist or have a "domain" on the internet?
>
> So you don't think you can work inside the existing (and as-modified)
> ICANN framework to achieve any of this? [Same disclaimer as above].
>
>>Paul Lehto, Juris Doctor
>>
>>On 10/1/09, Roland Perry <roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote:
>>> In message <1254397157.3941.611.camel at anriette-laptop>, at 13:39:17 on
>>> Thu, 1 Oct 2009, Anriette Esterhuysen <anriette at apc.org> writes
>>>>One question I have about the GAC, does it not become very important to
>>>>have input from different stakeholders at country level in the
>>>>identification/nomination of GAC members
>>>
>>> As a matter of simple fact, the GAC members are usually the most obvious
>>> career employee of the ministry charged with overseeing "International
>>> Telecoms issues", and are therefore likely to also turn up at ITU
>>> meetings, EU telecoms/Internet meetings, IGF consultations, UN-ECOSOC
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> Plus there are a few who might alternatively be their country's
>>> "Internet Czar".
>>> --
>>> Roland Perry
>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
> --
> Roland Perry
> ____________________________________________________________
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--
Paul R Lehto, J.D.
P.O. Box #1
Ishpeming, MI  49849
lehto.paul at gmail.com
906-204-4026
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