[governance] China: "we don't agree that the IGF should continue"

[Parminder]

Carlos

I strongly share your concerns, and think this may be the time of 
reckoning for the global civil society - if it exists in IG arena - to 
introspect and see if they can figure out what best can it do in these 
circumstances. Apart from acting at other global and national fora, it 
is  important we revisit what we did right or wrong vis a vis supporting 
and shaping the IGF, and what are our options ahead.

For the IGC as a group to be able to do this however we need to able to 
share some fundamental values that we all cherish, and a conception of 
people's rights in the emerging information society paradigm. What has 
happened in France, and the way the IG scene is increasingly getting 
ITU-centric, could hopefully act as an eye opener. I do feel that we 
have a strong collective responsibility in this regard, since IGC is 
perhaps the only geographically representative CS group in this area. 
But  I do get told often that I tend to put unrealistic expectations  on 
the IGC :) . 

I will share my impressions of the MAG meeting and the open 
consultations after the official summary is out, in  a day or two.

Parminder


Carlos Afonso wrote:
> On the other hand, it seems "WSIS II -- The Mission" might be coming by,
> as the ITU's sponsored meeting of this coming week seems to be
> considering, among other issues. And we might have an "IGF Part II" and
> so on. I do hope not -- it is about time the world converges to a far
> more extensive international IG structure.
>
> Most of us (not all, which is sad) in this list are shocked by the
> French decisions to run over several laws and rights to suppress
> Internet users in summary "executions" (motivated centrally by the cozy
> relationship of Monsieur Sarkozy with a French media mogul). One can
> imagine what Berlusconi (himself *the* Italian media mogul) can and will
> do, since he seems to hold the hearts and minds of the Italians in his
> hands. And the Brits seem to be going along.
>
> Worse, what are the aftershocks in developing countries' governments
> throughout the world of these processes in the so-called "Western
> democracies"? We are right now in Brazil fighting against draconian
> bills of law which would in practice eliminate the Internet as we know
> it. And we are left with the chatting and tea-partying of the IGF as the
> international forum to try and do something -- i.e, left with nearly
> nothing in practice to confront this razzia of violations against basic
> human rights.
>
> I remember the jokes the Europeans liked to tell to us Brazilians about
> the group of "like-minded countries" during the WGIG process. After all,
> Brazil is a representative democracy just llike us, what are you doing,
> aligning yourself with Iran, China and so on? I now return the question,
> sadly, as Europe seems to be joining happily, step by step, the likes of
> China and Saudi Arabia regarding fundamental human rights on the Internet.
>
> frt rgds
>
> --c.a.
>
> Ian Peter wrote:
>   
>> This wont be the end of the calls for IGF to be abandoned. One ISOC trustee
>> (speaking as an individual) was saying the same thing today. And once the
>> decision making gets out of the sympathetic enclave of IGF attendees a whole
>> lot of people who don't know much about it are likely to follow calls from
>> entities like ITU and China. This will include decision makers in
>> governments who currently appear to be sympathetic.
>>
>> It doesn't look like IGF will be taking the sort of actions that might help
>> to promote its position and effectiveness among those who will make
>> decisions on this (no communications campaign, no structured evaluation
>> etc).
>>
>> So I don't think the outcome is a foregone conclusion and we can write off
>> the Chinese position as a rogue one. This is likely to have some more
>> interesting twists and turns.
>>
>> Ian Peter
>>
>> On 14/05/09 3:39 PM, "Jeremy Malcolm" <jeremy at ciroap.org> wrote:
>>
>>   
>>     
>>> For those who didn't follow the open consultation meeting yesterday,
>>> China became the first to openly oppose the continuation of the IGF:
>>>
>>> "Firstly, we very much appreciate the secretariat for their excellent
>>> work.  We agree in principle with what has been said by previous
>>> speakers on the specific aims of the IGF.  We feel that the IGF has
>>> contributed a great deal in light of its historic mandate ...
>>> establishing dialogue, exchanging points of view.  But this is not
>>> enough to solve the problems.  The real problem is that in the field
>>> of the Internet, there is a monopoly that exists.  And we need to
>>> solve that problem. It's not by talking about principles merely that
>>> we can solve this problem.
>>>
>>> But it's not enough for developing countries who don't have enough
>>> resources and don't have the capacities to participate in this kind of
>>> dialogue without further commitments being made, which is why the
>>> points of view of developing countries, especially when it comes to
>>> Internet governance, their points of view are not sufficiently
>>> reflected in our discussions, which is why we don't agree that the IGF
>>> should continue its mandate after the five years are up.
>>>
>>> So we repeat that the delegation of China does not agree with
>>> extending the mission of the IGF beyond the five years.  We feel that
>>> after the five years are up, we would need to look at the results that
>>> have been achieved.  And we need, then, to launch into an
>>> intergovernmental discussion."
>>>
>>> I have blogged about this today (comments welcome, there or here):
>>>
>>> http://igfwatch.org/discussion-board/china-seeks-to-end-the-igf
>>>     
>>>       
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
>> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>>
>> For all list information and functions, see:
>>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>>
>>
>>   
>>     
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
>
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
>
>   
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20090518/c1130779/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance