[governance] Question 6: Comments on Shiva's proposed paras

[Ginger Paque]

Shiva, As there seems to be quite a bit of controversy about this 
concept and wording, and we are very short on time, I wonder if we could 
continue this discussion after the questionnaire is submitted, perhaps 
for comments to be submitted by the August deadline?

In the meantime, you could submit your own comment, which would give you 
more freedom to make your point. Is that acceptable to you?

Regards,
Ginger

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote:
> Hello Michael Gurstein
>
> A quick reply and a little more later.
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Michael Gurstein <gurstein at gmail.com 
> <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         *From:* Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com
>         <mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com>]
>         *Sent:* Sunday, July 12, 2009 6:18 PM
>         *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org
>         <mailto:governance at lists.cpsr.org>; Michael Gurstein
>         *Subject:* Re: [governance] Question 6: Comments on Siva's
>         proposed paras
>
>         Hello Michael Gurstein,
>
>         On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 2:50 AM, Michael Gurstein
>         <gurstein at gmail.com <mailto:gurstein at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>             "The Internet Governance Caucus calls upon the IGF
>             Secretariat to fund the IGF programs and participation
>             substantially and significantly to further enhance the
>             quality of programs with greater diversity of
>             participation" sounds better?  
>
>              YES... 
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>             There are two aspects to be considered in this regard: a)
>             The absence or
>             non-participation of some of the world's most renowned
>             Civil Society opinion
>             leaders is noticeable; Business Leaders who are otherwise
>             committed to
>             social and other governance issues off IGF are not seen at
>             the IGF;
>             Governments are not represented on a level high enough
>
>             HMMM. WHO/WHAT EXACTLY IS MEANT BY "RENOWNED CIVIL SOCIETY
>             OPINION LEADERS"
>             (IN SOME CIRCLES THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO AND PROBABLY MORE
>             INTERNAL
>             CONTRADITIONS IN THAT SIMPLE STATEMENT AND CERTAINLY
>             NEITHER WE NOR THE
>             SECRETARIAT SHOULD BE EXPECTED TO IDENTIFY WHO THESE
>             "RENOWNED" FOLKS MIGHT
>             BE.
>
>             AS WELL, ARE WE LOOKING FOR CIVIL SOCIETY "LEADERS" OR
>             FOLKS FROM CIVIL
>             SOCIETY ORGANIZATIONS IN LEADERSHIP POSITIONS, OR ARE WE
>             LOOKING FOR CIVIL
>             SOCIETY SPOKESPEOPLE WHO UNDERSTAND IG ISSUES, OR ARE WE
>             LOOKING FOR LEADERS
>             OF RESPONSIBLE REPRESENTATIVE CS ORGANIZATIONS WHO HAVE A
>             POSITION//OPINION/KNOWLEDGE ON IG ISSUES (EACH OF THESE
>             CATEGORIES IS
>             PROBABLY DISCREET AND COULD BE INCLUDED AMBIGUOUSLY UNDER
>             YOUR STATEMENT.
>
>             IF BIZ LEADERS THINK IT IS OF SUFFICIENT IMPORTANCE
>             THEY'LL LIKELY COME, IF
>             NOT, NOT AND NOT MUCH WE OR THE SECRETARIAT CAN DO ABOUT
>             THAT AND SIMILARLY
>             WITH GOVERNMENTS.
>
>             I THINK THIS PARA SHOULD BE DROPPED...
>
>
>         I am sorry, I don't agree with your negative interpretation of
>         such a positive suggestion. Are we to assert that the present
>         participants constitute a complete, representative, and
>         ultimate group ?  
>          
>         NO, BUT I'M HAVING TROUBLE SEEING WHAT NAOMI KLEIN OR VENDANA
>         SHIVA WOULD HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE EITHER...
>
> I will have to browse a little to learn about Naomi Klein; Vendana 
> Shiva is an Indian name that sounds familiar, but I wasn't thinking of 
> these names, nor was my point intended to bring in anyone whom I know 
> or associated with.  Looks like you are reading between the lines of 
> what I write.
>
>          
>         HAVING THE HEAD OF SEWA OR K-NET WOULD SEEM TO ME TO BE RATHER
>         MORE USEFUL, "RENOWNED" OR NOT, AS THEY AT LEAST COULD TALK
>         WITH SOME DIRECT KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW IG ISSUES IMPACT THEM AND
>         THE KINDS OF THINGS THEY ARE TRYING TO DO ON THE GROUND.
>
> Again an Indian reference - you have used the word "Sewa" in your 
> comment. Perhaps you are reading me as someone pushing the Indian 
> point of view? I am not. I am born in India, a participant from India, 
> I have faith in and respect for my country but I believe that in an 
> International context I am at least a little wider than a national.  I 
> have been inspired by teachers who taught me in my school days that 
> "patriotism is a prejudice" which is profound thinking which in depths 
> implies that one must be beyond being patriotic and be rather global.
>
> (Will come back this point and write more in response to what you have 
> written a little later)
>
> Thank you.
> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy.
>
>  
>
>          
>         MBG
>          
>
>         Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
>          
>
>
>               
>             M
>
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