[governance] AW: [tt-group] FW: GAID

[Ian Peter]

> From: Avri Doria <avri at psg.com>
> Reply-To: <governance at lists.cpsr.org>, Avri Doria <avri at psg.com>
> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:31:18 -0500
> To: IGC <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
> Subject: Re: [governance] AW: [tt-group] FW: GAID
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I personally would not presume to say what we, as civil society, should be
> supporting.

NO - and my opinions below are not what I think civil society should adopt,
just my perspective
> 
> I tend to toward multistakeholder systems where each stakeholder group figures
> their own ways, ie. their choice from various democratic or other forms, of
> picking their representatives.

Not for me - Ive had enough of dictatorships, meritocracies, feudalism,
nation states, and other unrepresentative structures. Some sort of
representative model is a baseline for me, and unfortunately in technical
community and nation states in particular we don't always see these.
> 
> As for what the nation states have foisted on us in the name of democracy, i
> have grown quite disillusioned with it as I have not seen an election yet that
> has not been tampered with and/or distorted in multiple ways.  i strongly
> believe that direct democracy works at the local level but that it does not
> scale to the global level, and i believe that bottom-up representation can
> grow within the stakeholder model from the most local level up in some varying
> but scalable way.

Lets face it, if planet earth had a democratic structure its governance
would be entirely different. For a start, equal size electorates instead of
nation states would see global politics being conducted entirely
differently. For a start, the India and China votes would dominate globally
because of their population sizes. And although India in particular can sit
very comfortably with huge internal disparities between rich and poor, I
don't think the huge current global differences between rich and poor
nations would continue without some improvements. Nation states are a
failure on many levels, climate change talks being the latest example, and
one day we do have to move beyond this. How we do it is the question - and
perhaps multistakeholderism is part of the answer.

Of course we would still have bureacracies, corruption, power grabs, fear,
greed, ad all of that. So it would not create a perfect world, just a
slightly better way of doing things now that we are globally connected.

(well, these few days before the new year are the time for stepping back a
bit and taking new perspectives on things).

 


> 
> i do not accept that any form of top down so-called democratic form can really
> be democratic, it can pretend and it can lull us into a sense of democratic
> security, but it will always let us down and will always serve the people with
> money and not the rest of us.
> 
> so yes, I am looking for full participatory multistakeholder process.
> 
> a.
> 
> 
> On 28 Dec 2009, at 14:55, Michael Gurstein wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Avri,
>> 
>> I'm not really sure what you mean by "full participatory multistakeholder
>> systems" but I would have thought that we, as civil society should be
>> supporting a full participatory democratic process as the basis for both
>> national and global policy development.
>> 
>> I have very real concerns about the corporatist outcomes and forms that
>> "multistakeholder systems" seem to result in--a close look for example, at
>> classic multistakeholder systems like the IOC/Olympics structures don't give
>> one a lot of confidence in the broader benefits that are achieved as a result
>> of these processes. (The narrower benefits realized by the various
>> stakeholder beneficiaries and elites are rather easier to identify.)
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
>> (about to become a temporary refugee from the Vancouver Winter OlympicsŠ
>>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
>> Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 9:09 AM
>> To: IGC 
>> Subject: Re: [governance] AW: [tt-group] FW: GAID
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 28 Dec 2009, at 11:29, Parminder wrote:
>> 
>>> Do we basically lack belief in global policies (polity) of any kind or
>>> just in global policies made exclusively by intergovernmental forums
>>> without due participation by civil society in the spirit of what has
>>> come to be known as 'deepening democracy'?
>> 
>> 
>> I am not sure that we, in the sense of we the IGC, have a belief.
>> 
>> Personally, i believe that the only valid global policies would come from
>> full participatory multistakeholder systems.  while it may not always be the
>> case, the national state still fulfills a relevant function, but in my
>> personal opinion it is one of several equal partners in any debate.
>> 
>> So as long as we, in the sense of the IGC, are supporting the creation of a
>> well formed multistakeholder regime, we have something I believe in.  in my
>> life i work for (either in a volunteer sense or a professional sense) two
>> institutions that are working toward a multistakeholder future.  neither has
>> achieved that fully yet - each has a dominant force, in one the nations
>> states and in the other the private sector, but both are, in my opinion on
>> the right track an represent as far as we can get at this point.
>> 
>> a.
>> 
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> 
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