[governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?

Wed Aug 19 20:55:11 EDT 2009

Eric says "*America has never and most likely will never have any decrees.
We do not run our rig that way*."
As one who also thinks and define my own existence from that action, I am
truly surprised here.  This could be the minority jaundiced view but I have
never believed that ICANN would/could exist without substantive USG
oversight.  Given what I know of the US political order and with eyes wide
open and mind engaged, it is unlikely.  When the smoke clears, invoking the
national security of the United States on any issue trumps all other
considerations.

Here we stand.  If JPA - or by whatever name its replacement is finally
implemented - is to go, I am opposed to a replacement of one suzerain power
with another to the exclusion of the rest of us in the world.

All this aside, the deed is done and the die is cast. I must and am willing
to be proved wrong on this.

Speaking of revisionism, historical and otherwise, I wonder in what context
would we interpret [US presidential] executive orders?  And what do you make
of the instances where their execution have - by means fair and foul -
imposed the American will elsewhere in the world?

Carlton Samuels

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Eric Dierker
<cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> I am concerned that with the JPA significant dates edging ever closer, this
> type of anti American revisionist history will become more prevalant. Let us
> hope not. Let us begin by making it known that innaccuracies such as this
> will be challenged.
>
> America has never and most likely will never have any decrees. We do not
> run our rig that way.  Doctrines are a statement of intention by executives
> in governance, they are not law or treaty.  The Monroe Doctrine is a
> statement against a *Holy Alliance* that threatened to reinstate
> colonialism.  It was a statement to our lawmakers how the executive planned
> on dealing with others.
>
> All nations are allowed to make moves to secure their borders.  Internet
> governance must accept and enjoy the cultural integrity that goes along with
> this forever necessity.  All nations should feel confident and indeed plan
> for future independence regarding telecommunications.  If the United States
> can effectively maintain and control access to information for other
> countries, it would be incumbent upon those countries to change that
> reliance.
>
>
>
> --- On *Sun, 7/19/09, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <isolatedn at gmail.com>*wrote:
>
>
> From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <isolatedn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "Vanda Scartezini" <vanda at uol.com.br>
> Cc: "Carlton Samuels" <carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm>, ""Kleinwächter,
> Wolfgang"" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
> Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 1:10 PM
>
> Hello All,
>
> President James Monroe decreed in 1823 that any attempt to extend foreign
> political systems onto U.S. soil would be considered an act of aggression
> requiring U.S. intervention. This was essentially for national defense.
>
> Mary Ann Davidson proposed to invoke the Doctrine" to put the world on
> notice that the *US has cyberturf,* and that we will defend our turf" It
> would be a distortion of this doctrine, if quoted to propose policies that
> would amount to no less than an US aggression of a space that it common to
> the whole world.  What is proposed is the opposite of Monroe Doctrine in
> that sense.
>
> Why would Oracle say this?
>
> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
> Blog: http://isocmadras.blogspot.com
>
> facebook: http://is.gd/x8Sh
> LinkedIn: http://is.gd/x8U6
> Twitter: http://is.gd/x8Vz
>
> 2009/7/19 Vanda Scartezini <vanda at uol.com.br<http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vanda@uol.com.br>
> >
>
>>  Carlton
>>  I guess I could add many others examples to your comments. Lets not be
>> naïve on this.
>>
>> *Vanda Scartezini*
>> *POLO Consultores Associados*
>> *&  IT Trend*
>> *Alameda Santos 1470 cjs 1407/8*
>> *01418-903 Sao Paulo,SP.*
>> *Fone + 55 11 3266.6253*
>> *Mob + 5511 8181.1464***
>>
>>  *From:* carlton.samuels at gmail.com<http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carlton.samuels@gmail.com>[mailto:
>> carlton.samuels at gmail.com<http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carlton.samuels@gmail.com>]
>> *On Behalf Of *Carlton Samuels
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 15, 2009 6:39 PM
>> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org<http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=governance@lists.cpsr.org>;
>> "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
>> *Subject:* Re: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?
>>
>>
>> Um, see, history matters!  Those of us on the periphery of empire can
>> attest to that.
>>
>> Seems I share some common reading material with Ms. Davidson.  And while
>> we read the same books, her worldview leads her to count all other actors in
>> the space as merely collateral damage.
>>
>> The Monroe Doctrine is an unfortunate metaphor applied to either
>> cybersecurity or Internet governance.  I shall take the most benign
>> explanation and insist she is blithely unaware of the deleterious impact of
>> the Monroe Doctrine on Latin America and the Caribbean. Honduras is just the
>> latest gasp in a sorry history of an execrable policy that delivered
>> "repeated injuries and usurpations greviously committed" and unilateral
>> extraterritorial interventions resulting in stunted democratic institutions,
>> mayhem and murder. Other stakeholders, the local people for one, were never
>> recognized as having worthwhile much less sovereign interests. She clearly
>> does not know the true history of the United Fruit Company in Central
>> America and other implementing tools of this doctrine.   I won't even
>> mention Haiti.
>>
>> Let us be clear. The views expressed by Madame Reding of the EC inre
>> ICANN-related Internet governance issues are merely more, well.....shall we
>> say nuanced...as befits a better understanding of the sweep of history and
>> its impact on the future.
>>
>> History is not bunk.  And culture is a helluva thing!
>>
>> Carlton Samuels
>>  2009/7/15 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <
>> wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de<http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wolfgang.kleinwaechter@medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
>> >
>> Here is a good statement from Mary Ann Davidson, CSO from Oracle, where
>> she proposes a "Monroe Doctrin" for Internet Governance. This is an extended
>> version from a statement she made in a Congressional Hearing recently.
>>
>> If somebody expected that we will soon the end of the IG debate, the
>> contrary will be the case: The discussion has just started and the risk is,
>> that all the new entrants in the discussion will probably not understand,
>> what multistakeholderism is and why this has been an achievement for the
>> diplomacy of the 1st decade of the 21st century. The 2nd decade could look
>> rather different.
>>
>> Wolfgang
>>
>> http://blogs.oracle.com/maryanndavidson/
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