[governance] Civil & Political Entitlements, and a Declaration of Religion

[Eric Dierker]

(I am going to be sarcastic and a bit caustic -- please, this is a very delicate issue and very important to get right. I want to make light of my position so you may feel comfortable with your response.  We all must be tolerant of others religious opinions even though mine are the only right ones)
 
 
 
How nice you two.  Leave it to religions to work out their differences.  "Outside the Scope" was the mantra of ICANN for years.  This mantra would cut off all debate and the ICANN would just go right ahead in that direction.  Very tidy of both of you to not recognize that via the internet millions are being oppressed in their right to religious freedom.  If you do not believe me look at Iran, Honduras, Vietnam, Tibet, China.  Some of it occurs by the religions, Honduras and Iran, some of it happens against the religions, Vietnam, China, Tibet. In others by the religions, Honduras, Iran & Ireland. (totally different methods)
 
Perhaps one of you would like to ring them up over at Article 2 of the UNs declaration.  I am sure that they would like to know that Religious Freedom is outside of the scope of an IGF work list.
And while you are at it check out these three terms in Websters' new word store; catholicism -- do not get destracted by Catholicism, Universal -- do not get distracted by Karl Sabins universe, Inalienable -- do not get destracted by the X-files.
 
Shalom aleichem & Yah-Tah-Hey-Si-Kess
(unlike Joe's Latin I leave these intact for googling)
Shalom I have learned in search of western ancients, Yah tah I have learned in search of really western ancients - the Anazazi. Res Ipsa Loquitor.
 
 

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com> wrote:


From: Paul Lehto <lehto.paul at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [governance] Civil & Political Entitlements, and a Declaration of
To: "Milton L Mueller" <mueller at syr.edu>
Cc: "governance at lists.cpsr.org" <governance at lists.cpsr.org>
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 5:20 PM


I agree with Milton Mueller "that a religious grounding for rights" is
not required.  That is why I specifically alluded to Jefferson's
democracy "tent" including both atheists and theists through the use
of his phrase "Nature and Nature's God" in the Declaration of
Independence.  It was, and is, an unusual formulation, but
deliberately so, so that we could have respectful interface (as Eric
Dierker just put it) between both the religious and the agnostic or
atheist (as the case may be).

I believe that we concur, if not agree, on the inclusion of all
regardless of their position on matters of spirituality, so we need
not debate that on this list.  However, the nature of governance and
the source of rights is the very foundation of governance, so a strong
argument could be made for list relevance.  But again, the way it is
formulated, with twin alternatives to satisfy everyone, means that it
need not be discussed, so we reach the same result regardless.

By selecting the one part that you agree with, does Milton Mueller
mean to suggest that he disagrees with or is unsure of the parts
concerning transparency and accountability (which are two sides of the
same coin)?  I was not sure.

Paul Lehto, Juris Doctor

On 8/17/09, Milton L Mueller <mueller at syr.edu> wrote:
> I agree with this part of your statement. I do not think that a religious
> grounding for rights is required, however. We should not get into that here,
> it's outside the scope of this list.
>
>> Obviously, the only time anyone really needs a right is to do
>> something somebody else doesn't want them to do -- or even that a
>> majority doesn't want them to do, like speak to an unpopular issue.
>
>> [snip]
>> If you follow what I'm saying above, and wish to resist tyranny of the
>> majority as well as governmental tyranny and the tyranny of any other
>> large concentration of power, then there must be a conception of
>> rights that is beyond the ability of the majority, the government or
>> any other power to legitimately alter or control.   Thus, such rights,
>> while they can be violated, even violated for a very long time and
>> egregiously so, NEVER go away or get waived.  They just get violated.
>
>
> Milton Mueller
> Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
> XS4All Professor, Delft University of Technology
> ------------------------------
> Internet Governance Project:
> http://internetgovernance.org
>
>


-- 
Paul R Lehto, J.D.
P.O. Box #1
Ishpeming, MI  49849
lehto.paul at gmail.com
906-204-2333
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