[governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?

Mon Aug 17 09:28:05 EDT 2009

Well I can see why some here really want to know who they are dealing with on this list.
If you knew who I was, you would not make such a funny statement.  Clearly as, Avri can attest, I would have to dress up in little red riding hoods clothing in order to change my identity.  I have long been an advocate for dotcommoner rights within and without the ICANN structure.  You can ask Joe, there is this little thing of the TLDA and my very .lowtech Interest in that arena. I have been accused of working for Countries other than the USA and staunchly advocating that they are wholly independent of ICANN and more importantly the USA. If you have ever heard of a genre of arguments that entail the Internet rights of Saigon ShoeShine boys you would no my free radicals.

As for America.  I have travelled way too much to fall for that game.  In Canada we citizens from the US are mostly referred to as Americans. As for Mexico it is Norte Americanos and in all Asia it is Americans. In Europe it is mostly derogatory or actually much more regional in conversation, like LA or NY or near the Grand Canyon or New Orleans. If I say I am from the US, people get that but -- Mexico is also an United States in America soo???

I do not consider your post as a personal attack. I am not insulted but I would suggest that for others who have not been in the ICANN and cyber wars since the 90s you tone down your direct insults.

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Rui Correia <correia.rui at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "Eric Dierker" <cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:10 AM

Eric,

Why not save us all the guess work and tell us once and for all that you and others of your coterie get paid (and how much) by ICANN/ US Dept to work against common civil society interests in the free world? The internet reveals much including past ICANN inbreeding and other associations. You would do better to dress up in a wolf costume trying to convince us that you are Little Red Riding Hood!

What is your issue now with "America" (sic [there is no such thing! - America or the Americas is a/ are continents that comprise A NUMBER OF countries, not just the US of A])?

Rui

2009/8/16 Eric Dierker <cogitoergosum at sbcglobal.net>

I am concerned that with the JPA significant dates edging ever closer, this type of anti American revisionist history will become more prevalant. Let us hope not. Let us begin by making it known that innaccuracies such as this will be challenged.

America has never and most likely will never have any decrees. We do not run our rig that way.  Doctrines are a statement of intention by executives in governance, they are not law or treaty.  The Monroe Doctrine is a statement against a Holy Alliance that threatened to reinstate colonialism.  It was a statement to our lawmakers how the executive planned on dealing with others.

All nations are allowed to make moves to secure their borders.  Internet governance must accept and enjoy the cultural integrity that goes along with this forever necessity.  All nations should feel confident and indeed plan for future independence regarding telecommunications.  If the United States can effectively maintain and control access to information for other countries, it would be incumbent upon those countries to change that reliance.

--- On Sun, 7/19/09, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <isolatedn at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <isolatedn at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org, "Vanda Scartezini" <vanda at uol.com.br>
Cc: "Carlton Samuels" <carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm>, ""Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 1:10 PM

Hello All,

President James Monroe decreed in 1823 that any attempt to extend foreign political systems onto U.S. soil would be considered an act of aggression requiring U.S. intervention. This was essentially for national defense.

Mary Ann Davidson proposed to invoke the Doctrine" to put the world on notice that the US has cyberturf, and that we will defend our turf" It would be a distortion of this doctrine, if quoted to propose policies that would amount to no less than an US aggression of a space that it common to the whole world.  What is proposed is the opposite of Monroe Doctrine in that sense. 

Why would Oracle say this?

Sivasubramanian Muthusamy
Blog: http://isocmadras.blogspot.com

facebook: http://is.gd/x8Sh
LinkedIn: http://is.gd/x8U6
Twitter: http://is.gd/x8Vz

2009/7/19 Vanda Scartezini <vanda at uol.com.br>

Carlton
 I guess I could add many others examples to your comments. Lets not be naïve on this.  

Vanda Scartezini
POLO Consultores Associados
&  IT Trend
Alameda Santos 1470 cjs 1407/8
01418-903 Sao Paulo,SP.
Fone + 55 11 3266.6253
Mob + 5511 8181.1464

From: carlton.samuels at gmail.com [mailto:carlton.samuels at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Carlton Samuels
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 6:39 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang"
Subject: Re: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?

Um, see, history matters!  Those of us on the periphery of empire can attest to that. 

Seems I share some common reading material with Ms. Davidson.  And while we read the same books, her worldview leads her to count all other actors in the space as merely collateral damage.

The Monroe Doctrine is an unfortunate metaphor applied to either cybersecurity or Internet governance.  I shall take the most benign explanation and insist she is blithely unaware of the deleterious impact of the Monroe Doctrine on Latin America and the Caribbean. Honduras is just the latest gasp in a sorry history of an execrable policy that delivered "repeated injuries and usurpations greviously committed" and unilateral extraterritorial interventions resulting in stunted democratic institutions, mayhem and murder. Other stakeholders, the local people for one, were never recognized as having worthwhile much less sovereign interests. She clearly does not know the true history of the United Fruit Company in Central America and other implementing tools of this doctrine.   I won't even mention Haiti.   

Let us be clear. The views expressed by Madame Reding of the EC inre ICANN-related Internet governance issues are merely more, well.....shall we say nuanced...as befits a better understanding of the sweep of history and its impact on the future.

History is not bunk.  And culture is a helluva thing!

Carlton Samuels

2009/7/15 "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" <wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de>
Here is a good statement from Mary Ann Davidson, CSO from Oracle, where she proposes a "Monroe Doctrin" for Internet Governance. This is an extended version from a statement she made in a Congressional Hearing recently.

If somebody expected that we will soon the end of the IG debate, the contrary will be the case: The discussion has just started and the risk is, that all the new entrants in the discussion will probably not understand, what multistakeholderism is and why this has been an achievement for the diplomacy of the 1st decade of the 21st century. The 2nd decade could look rather different.

Wolfgang

http://blogs.oracle.com/maryanndavidson/
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
    governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
    governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
    http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance

-- 
________________________________________________

Rui Correia
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
2 Cutten St
Horison 
Roodepoort-Johannesburg, 
South Africa
Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
_______________
áâãçéêíóôõúç

-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.igcaucus.org/pipermail/governance/attachments/20090817/e32e6f98/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance