[governance] Unsubscribing ACLU (Dateline 1953)

Sat Aug 8 22:54:32 EDT 2009

Excellent Carlos,
(your pedigree preceeds you of course) 
--- On Sat, 8/8/09, Carlos Afonso ca at rits.org.br> wrote:

The central problem here resides in the scope of the list. If we want an
open discussion like an open air lunch forum in which anyone can come
(including people who are after things other than the general objectives
of the forum), fine, let us continue with it -- this is what this list
is today.
Please set forth the general objectives of the list and where they are located. the stuff I read sounds like a marketing and fundraising advertising press release  http://cpsr.org/issues/gis/tunisrpt/  
But here we try to build consensus on key themes based on views we bring
from non-profit organizations concerned or involved with the themes of
Internet governance,(I have not seen a vote here. I know of no person elected here and I do not understand your use of the word theme.  sometimes we vote, we try to build a unified
position to be submitted to fora such as ICANN and the IGF. So it is up
to us to decide which way to go. (I have never seen a position tendered to ICANN from this list -- I must read them, where are they?)

I am sure more people will be asking to leave, or simply unsubscribe, if
the list continues as is. (more important -- how many have been excluded? Not just by membership criteria but by shunning) What kind of online caucus we want? This is
what we need to answer. I think all of us want a plural caucus in which
opinions are diverse and the resulting debate might lead us to build
consensus, but first and foremost, I for one want a caucus in which I
know whom I am debating with. (yes I have known those who judge the worth of what a woman says by her pedigree rather than the value of what she has to offer.  Yes I have often been lied to about the agenda of those with which I debated  --  It is good to look a fellow in the eye and judge his conviction -- but it is wrong not to allow a man a place at the table based upon his lack of an NGO triple digit salary)

Finally, I am puzzled (and curious) as to what class or faith Mr Dierker
(whom I do not know about either) is stamping me with. Nor his
qualifications to teach Dr Müller (I for one did not request lessons).
(if you still think I care about your class or faith you cannot read. I am however quite interested in anyone who has lived in Canada & Brazil and has lived half a lifetime running "from" rather than "to")
frt rgds

As for me, know this;  I am a highwayman. I am a bastard and illegitimate son. I have lived in a tent, in a cave, on five continents, alone, in a commune and in jail.  I have suffered false charges and have also evaded prosecution. I have prosecuted others and have suffered the slings and arrows of a fight. I have held sick and dying children and I have children of my own. I am a cancer survivor. My origins are said to be Irish and Italian, but I was raised by German Americans, in the heart of Navajoland and my family includes my Vietnamese wife.  But I do professionally analyze and strategize computer models for those interested in manipulating criteria bases to qualify for a gain.
Would any of that be on your membership criteria?? 

--c.a.

Eric Dierker wrote:
> (this is for the education of Milton and Carlos and in honor of
> Martin, Gandhi, Bobby and Malcolm) Yes Carlos you quoted the same
> words verbatim!!!
> 
> October 4th 1953. Location: Phoenix, Arizona USA. Locale: Famed
> Phoenix Country Club. Activity: Emergency meeting of the BoD re:
> Membership.
> 
> It was learned today that there was a Jewish family that was
> inadvertently sold property within the Country Club. Emergency
> meeting to discuss enforcement of membership criteria, and exclusion
> of undesirables.  After much debate using words such as Kikes and
> Niggers the following was concluded;
> 
> "this can only be solved by clear membership rules and a 
> re-subscription (application) process in which people no one knows or
> about whom one cannot obtain reliable references should not enter the
> list. (club) We would at least clean up....."
> 
> The only things worse than racial bigotry is bigotry based on faith
> and on class.  This horrible example of Carlos' way was only for a
> Country Club.  Can one imagine going back 50 years in bias and
> prejudice on a list about governance. Clearly we must say -- Forgive
> them lord, for they know not what they do.
> 
> Governance has never and will never be about the Carlos' and Miltons'
> deciding what is best for the people. They may exclude me and my
> brothers from their club, but they will never ever govern my people.
> 
> --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Carlos Afonso <ca at rits.org.br> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Carlos Afonso <ca at rits.org.br> Subject: Re: [governance]
> Unsubscribing and controlling the trolls To:
> governance at lists.cpsr.org, "Ginger Paque" <gpaque at gmail.com> Cc: "Ian
> Peter" <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 5:34
> PM
> 
> 
> Ginger, this can only be solved by clear membership rules and a 
> re-subscription process in which people no one knows or about whom
> one cannot obtain reliable references should not enter the list. We
> would at least clean up the list of the "jeffrey williams" types and
> other mystery folks.
> 
> It has worked well in our regional list in LA&C.
> 
> We might even have dogs participating in the list, for crying out
> loud! ;)
> 
> --c.a.
> 
> Ginger Paque wrote:
>> Dear IGC members:
>> 
>> We are having numerous complaints about postings by trolls on the
>> list. However, until we have fulfilled the steps stipulated in the
>> ICG charter for each case, we cannot take action against them. In
>> the meantime we suggest that you set your Spam or other email
>> filters to remove unwanted messages before they reach your inbox.
>> 
>> A close look at recent IGC archives show an increasing number of
>> messages by trolls. It also shows an increase in "unsubscribes".
>> All of us must take individual action to avoid destruction of the
>> list. The co-coordinators cannot do it with administrative action
>> alone, because we must protect the right to legitimate discussion
>> and dissension through proper procedure.
>> 
>> Experienced trolls can manipulate real issues to distract and
>> overwhelm a list. Rather than unsubscribing, we suggest you not
>> participate in discussions with unproductive members and use
>> filters to control the messages you receive.
>> 
>> We may need to open a discussion on changes to the charter, or a
>> change to a moderated list. Please consider these possibilities and
>> opine if you think appropriate.
>> 
>> Best, Ginger * *
>> 
> 
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