[Fwd: [governance] Workshop proposal - Internationalisation of
William Drake
william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
Wed Apr 22 05:28:24 EDT 2009
Hi Je
On Apr 22, 2009, at 8:13 AM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> just for the sake of it,
What other reason would an academic need? ;-)
>
> the classic definition of transnational relationships goes back to a
> Nye and Keohane article from 1971. Here, transnational relationships
> are defined as interactions “across state boundaries when at least
> one actor is not an agent of a government or an intergovernmental
> organization”.
Yes, classic, as in archaic. Back then the notion that anything in
world politics could be affected by non-state actors and processes was
a paradigm shifter. But the debate's moved on over the past 40 years,
and K&N like everyone else have moved toward a more nuanced
conceptualization.
>
>
> I agree with you that transnationalization is not precise as ICANN,
> according to the definition above, is a very good example of a
> transnational organization.
Yup. Governments limited to an advisory role is a pretty good metric
for the contemporary view.
> On the other hand, the oversight model is not transnational but
> unilateral. In this respect it makes sense to me to use the term
> transnationalization.
I take your point, if what we're advocating is that no government,
rather than one, should play a central role. But that's WGIG model 2;
Parminder was suggesting we should be thinking inter alia about models
1, 3 and 4, which would imply a different word, hence my suggestion.
But whatever, basta.
Toure's giving his opening address to the WTPF and welcomed the reps
of other UN bodies...forgot to include IGF in the list.
Best,
Bill
>
>
> jeanette
>
> William Drake wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I agree with dumping "internationalization," it sounds like the
>> original Syrian version of the Opinion on IG that the ITU WTPF will
>> debate tomorrow here in Lisbon (WSIS II has come early). At the
>> same time, "transnationalization" is usually understood to mean
>> trans-territorial processes over which states have little or at
>> least contestable control, and FWIW in the academic and policy
>> literatures "transnational governance" is usually understood to
>> mean private sector/nongovernmental governance. By this standard,
>> what we have now with ICANN is transnational governance, so calling
>> for transnationalization would seem a bit odd. And I don't suspect
>> this is what Parminder has in mind, since he was referring to the
>> WGIG "oversight" models.
>> Personally, I'd fudge it and say "globalization" instead. At least
>> then nobody will assume they know what we mean and disagree
>> accordingly. And I'd still much prefer that if the workshop is
>> intended to be about ICANN, we just say ICANN, rather than hiding
>> behind verbiage and implicitly conflating ICANN and IG to the
>> exclusion of all else---precisely what the caucus worked to
>> challenge during WSIS. I don't think it's particularly helpful for
>> us to go retrograde, although I'll roll with whatever has support
>> here.
>> Cheers,
>> Bill
>> On Apr 21, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>>> I support both workshop proposal and a replacing of
>>> internationalization by transnationalization. Internationalization
>>> suggests replacing one government by many governments.
>>> Transnationalization would include non-state actors.
>>> jeanette
>>>
>>> Parminder wrote:
>>>> I personally have no problem with putting it as
>>>> Internationalisation/ transnationalisation
>>>> something like "
>>>> *Internationalization/ transnationalisation of Internet
>>>> Governance - The way forward from
>>>> where we stand today *
>>>> I know this is last minute, and it is entirely up to the co-
>>>> coordinators to take this change or not. But since Milton replied
>>>> to my formulation I thought I should state my response/ position
>>>> on it. If not changed now, when we send the final formulation in
>>>> May we can always do it this way. parminder Milton L Mueller wrote:
>>>>> I support the basic idea of both Workshops. However, can we use
>>>>> a term other than "internationalization" to describe Workshop 1?
>>>>> To many, "internationalization" means "takeover by existing
>>>>> intergovernmental organizations. Do we mean
>>>>> "transnationalization" or globalization" instead?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Graciela Selaimen [mailto:graciela at rits.org.br]
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 10:05 AM
>>>>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Fwd: [governance] Workshop proposal -
>>>>>> Internationalisation
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I support the proposal of both workshops.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> best,
>>>>>> Graciela
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Parminder escreveu:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IGC-ers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IGC has always taken lead in some key political issues at each
>>>>>>> IGF,
>>>>>>> and it will be rather amiss if we do not do. Moreover, it will
>>>>>>> not be
>>>>>>> the best outcome of all the energy and time we all devote here
>>>>>>> voluntarily for some public interest causes we believe it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I therefore seek views and endorsements for the two workshops
>>>>>>> that i
>>>>>>> think have a history in IGC's political engagements in global IG
>>>>>>> forums, especially the IGF. I am trying to push this at this
>>>>>>> late hour
>>>>>>> because I do believe ob both these subjects - Network
>>>>>>> Neutrality and
>>>>>>> Internationalisation of IG - there is a strong support in the
>>>>>>> IGC,
>>>>>>> which for some reasons have not clearly come out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So if you do want IGC to sponsor a workshop on these subjects pl
>>>>>>> indicate so in the next 24 hours, after which I will request the
>>>>>>> coordinators to take a call if enough support for these
>>>>>>> workshop has
>>>>>>> been forthcoming. While the text of the two workshop, at this
>>>>>>> stage
>>>>>>> of discussion, is posted below, we must remember that this is an
>>>>>>> initial rough proposal stage, and the final text can be
>>>>>>> changed to a
>>>>>>> considerable extent, within the overall stated subject
>>>>>>> framework,
>>>>>>> later, which we can do over some discussions. On the other
>>>>>>> hand, if we
>>>>>>> do not submit workshop proposals now they cannot be submitted
>>>>>>> ever for
>>>>>>> the IGF 4.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am only picking up these two workshops to especially
>>>>>>> advocate for
>>>>>>> them on my behalf within the IGC. Other workshop proposals
>>>>>>> that are
>>>>>>> moving forward will of course keep doing so, and coordinators
>>>>>>> may take
>>>>>>> a final decision tomorrow, though i ma not quite sure what the
>>>>>>> overall
>>>>>>> plan is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, parminder
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Workshop 1 -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Internationalization of Internet Governance - The way forward
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> where we stand today *
>>>>>>> The Internet's present governance structures grew out of certain
>>>>>>> historical contexts, as well as some new socio-political
>>>>>>> realities
>>>>>>> around the Internet. In the context of rapid changes that the
>>>>>>> Internet has wrought, the key and emerging issues related to
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> governance could not have been anticipated by anyone. One thing
>>>>>>> however is clear by now; the Internet is not just a technical
>>>>>>> artifact, requiring technical governance with regard to
>>>>>>> keeping it
>>>>>>> running smoothly, but a key socio-political phenomenon
>>>>>>> requiring
>>>>>>> participative, inclusive and accountable
>>>>>>> internationalization. It is
>>>>>>> important to analyze the needs of evolution and
>>>>>>> internationalization
>>>>>>> of IG from various standpoints and the direction in which we
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> move from here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The workshop will seek to discuss some real institutional
>>>>>>> possibilities of what to do next, possibly
>>>>>>> presenting and analyzing alternative models, along with the
>>>>>>> advantages and disadvantages of each.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Relates to theme - IG, CIRs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who would you approach as co-organizers ? Or who do you
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> should organize it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IG Caucus would like to organize this workshop..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is important to analyze the needs of evolution and
>>>>>>> internationalization of IG from various standpoints and the
>>>>>>> direction
>>>>>>> in which we might move from here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The workshop will seek to discuss some real institutional
>>>>>>> possibilities of what to do next, possibly
>>>>>>> presenting and analyzing alternative models, along with the
>>>>>>> advantages and disadvantages of each.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Relates to theme - IG, CIRs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who would you approach as co-organizers ? Or who do you
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> should organize it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> IG Caucus would like to organize this workshop
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> Workshop 2*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Network Neutrality - Exploring a global consensus on
>>>>>>> principles*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Concise description (up to 200 words)
>>>>>>> There is an increasing recognition of the urgency to develop
>>>>>>> some kind
>>>>>>> of NN principles in order to preserve the open and democratic
>>>>>>> nature
>>>>>>> of the Internet, and safeguard the interest of Internet users
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> others affected by it. This workshop will explore recent
>>>>>>> efforts to
>>>>>>> articulate and agree on NN principles in Europe, Japan, the
>>>>>>> U.S. and
>>>>>>> developing countries. While proceeding from numerous national
>>>>>>> regulatory developments, it will try to assess the transnational
>>>>>>> implications of various approaches to NN, especially vis a vis
>>>>>>> developing countries who seem largely absent from NN debates.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Relates to theme -
>>>>>>> Openness
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who would you approach as co-organizers ? or who do you think
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> organize it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Internet Governance Project (IGP) is happy to play a support
>>>>>>> role in
>>>>>>> organizing this. Others we would approach: Free Press (USA-
>>>>>>> based civil
>>>>>>> society advocacy group); Consumer Council of Norway; ITforChange
>>>>>>> (India-based civil society advocacy group), Japan Internet
>>>>>>> Providers
>>>>>>> Association and Ministry of Communications. There are other
>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>> countries or examples that are involved in such negotiations
>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>> principles that we don't know about yet but will learn about
>>>>>>> later. We
>>>>>>> will seek out additional developing country commentators in
>>>>>>> particular.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael Gurstein wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would support this Workshop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> MBG
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 3:45 PM
>>>>>>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Ian Peter'; 'Parminder'
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [Fwd: [governance] Workshop proposal -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Internationalisation of
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At th is stage as we all seem to be occupied with other
>>>>>>>> things I do not
>>>>>>>> believe IGC can endorse this workshop (unless there is a
>>>>>>>> flood of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> support in
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> next 48 hours and no opposition. Parminder, I would encourage
>>>>>>>> you to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> submit
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it in any case.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ian Peter
>>>>>>>> PO Box 429
>>>>>>>> Bangalow NSW 2479
>>>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>>>> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>>>>>>>> www.ianpeter.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 April 2009 05:12
>>>>>>>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder'
>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [Fwd: [governance] Workshop proposal -
>>>>>>>>> Internationalisation of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Parminder. Any more comments on this? I thinkwe need
>>>>>>>>> expressions of support for the new wording from a few of
>>>>>>>>> those who were not happy with the previous version if we are
>>>>>>>>> to submit this as an IGC proposal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ian Peter
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PO Box 429
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bangalow NSW 2479
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> www.ianpeter.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: 18 April 2009 03:01
>>>>>>>>> To: 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; Ian Peter
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Fwd: [governance] Workshop proposal -
>>>>>>>>> Internationalisation of
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am fine with this. Just a technical language related point.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think we mean IG and not the Internet to be
>>>>>>>>> internationalised.
>>>>>>>>> Would therefore prefer
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "One thing however is clear by now; the Internet is not
>>>>>>>>> just a technical artifact, requiring technical governance
>>>>>>>>> with regard to keeping it running smoothly, but a key
>>>>>>>>> socio-political phenomenon requiring participative, inclusive
>>>>>>>>> and accountable internationalization."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> to be changed to
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "One thing however is clear by now; the Internet is not
>>>>>>>>> just a technical artifact, requiring technical governance
>>>>>>>>> with regard to keeping it running smoothly, but a key global
>>>>>>>>> socio-political phenomenon whose governance requires
>>>>>>>>> participative, inclusive and accountable
>>>>>>>>> internationalization. "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> parminder
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ian Peter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let me have one last go at this to see if we
>>>>>>>>> can get some acceptable wording . Please let me know if the
>>>>>>>>> following draft works, or possible amendments that might make
>>>>>>>>> it work. I'm trying to accommodate the range of interesting
>>>>>>>>> viewpoints we have on this subject
>>>>>>>>> - that is going to require removing some of the concepts
>>>>>>>>> which require further discussion or we will not reach
>>>>>>>>> agreement
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've changed the original text quite liberally!
>>>>>>>>> Let me know if this works
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Title
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Internationalization of Internet Governance -
>>>>>>>>> The way forward from where we stand today
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Concise description (up to 200 words)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Internet's present governance structures
>>>>>>>>> grew out of certain historical contexts, as well as some new
>>>>>>>>> socio-political realities around the Internet. In the context
>>>>>>>>> of rapid changes that the Internet has wrought, the key and
>>>>>>>>> emerging issues related to its governance could not have been
>>>>>>>>> anticipated by anyone. One thing however is clear by now; the
>>>>>>>>> Internet is not just a technical artifact, requiring
>>>>>>>>> technical governance with regard to keeping it running
>>>>>>>>> smoothly, but a key socio-political phenomenon requiring
>>>>>>>>> participative, inclusive and accountable
>>>>>>>>> internationalization. It is important to analyze the needs of
>>>>>>>>> evolution and internationalization of IG from various
>>>>>>>>> standpoints and the direction in which we might move from here
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The workshop will seek to discuss some real
>>>>>>>>> institutional possibilities of what to do next, possibly
>>>>>>>>> presenting and analyzing alternative models, along with the
>>>>>>>>> advantages and disadvantages of each.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Relates to theme - IG, CIRs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Who would you approach as co-organizers ? Or
>>>>>>>>> who do you think should organize it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> IG Caucus would like to organize this workshop..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ian Peter
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> PO Box 429
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bangalow NSW 2479
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Australia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> www.ianpeter.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Parminder
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: 13 April 2009 13:07
>>>>>>>>> To: 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [Fwd: [governance] Workshop
>>>>>>>>> proposal - Internationalisation of IG
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is an attempted draft for the
>>>>>>>>> proposed internationalisation workshop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Title
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Democratic internationalization of
>>>>>>>>> Internet Governance - The way forward from where we stand
>>>>>>>>> today
>>>>>>>>> <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
>>>>>>>>> <!--[endif]-->
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Concise description (up to 200 words)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As the Internet becomes a key factor of
>>>>>>>>> reorganizing our social structures, and doing so at a global
>>>>>>>>> level as never before, democratic global governance of the
>>>>>>>>> Internet is a pressing imperative. Its present governance
>>>>>>>>> structures grew out of certain historical contexts, as well
>>>>>>>>> as of some new socio-political realities around the Internet.
>>>>>>>>> In the context of rapid changes that the Internet has
>>>>>>>>> wrought, the key and emerging issues related to its
>>>>>>>>> governance, and the correspondingly legitimate governance
>>>>>>>>> arrangements, could not have been anticipated by anyone. One
>>>>>>>>> thing however is clear by now; the Internet is not just a
>>>>>>>>> technical artifact, requiring technical governance with
>>>>>>>>> regard to keeping it running smoothly, but a key
>>>>>>>>> socio-political phenomenon requiring participative political
>>>>>>>>> governance by all people of the world, who are all
>>>>>>>>> implicated. However, the direction we move in from here
>>>>>>>>> depends on where we stand. It is important to analyze the
>>>>>>>>> needs of evolution and internationalization of IG from these
>>>>>>>>> dual standpoints.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The workshop will seek to discuss some
>>>>>>>>> real institutional possibilities of what to do next, possibly
>>>>>>>>> presenting and analyzing alternative models, along with the
>>>>>>>>> advantages and disadvantages of each.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Relates to theme - IG, CIRs
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Who would you approach as co-organizers
>>>>>>>>> ? Or who do you think should organize it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is best that this workshop is
>>>>>>>>> organized by civil society actors. IG Caucus will like to
>>>>>>>>> organize this workshop, along with some civil society
>>>>>>>>> organizations form the North and South that have shown
>>>>>>>>> interest.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.11.31/2028 - Release
>>>>>>>>> Date: 3/28/2009 7:16 AM
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>> ***********************************************************
>> William J. Drake
>> Senior Associate
>> Centre for International Governance
>> Graduate Institute of International and
>> Development Studies
>> Geneva, Switzerland
>> william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
>> www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html
>> ***********************************************************
>> ____________________________________________________________
>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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***********************************************************
William J. Drake
Senior Associate
Centre for International Governance
Graduate Institute of International and
Development Studies
Geneva, Switzerland
william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
www.graduateinstitute.ch/cig/drake.html
***********************************************************
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