[governance] IGF, Hyderabad IGC meeeting

Mon Nov 17 10:28:06 EST 2008

the first option will be ok.

Baudouin

2008/11/16 Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com>

> Can people give an idea of their preference for a meeting? The choices seem
> to be
>
> 2nd (day before IGF) at 1830 (after Giganet business meeting)
> 3rd (after 1st day of IGF) probably about 1745 after sessions finish
>
> I'm tending towards the 2nd - if so, we should try to keep the meeting to
> no
> more than one hour as it will have been a long day for some. But please
> give
> an idea of which you prefer.
>
>
>
>
>
> Ian Peter
> PO Box 429
> Bangalow NSW 2479
> Australia
> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
> www.ianpeter.com
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org]
> > Sent: 11 November 2008 06:04
> > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad
> >
> > Hi Anja and all
> >
> > You're right, the IGF starts on the 3rd (Wednesday), and GigaNet
> > symposium is held on the 2nd, until 18:30.
> > Having an IGC meeting right after GigaNet business meeting (i.e.
> > 18:30-20:30) could be an option, especially since, most probably, we
> > could keep the same room (Parminder, I can ask if you want me to do
> > so, since I'm anyhow in contact with the IGF secretariat and with
> > HICC event manager re: logistics issues).
> >
> > Best,
> > Meryem
> >
> > --
> > Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org
> > IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire
> > 40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris
> >
> >
> > Le 10 nov. 08 à 08:32, Anja a écrit :
> >
> > > Param, doesn't the IGF start on the 3rd?
> > >
> > > Anja
> > >
> > > Parminder wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Ian
> > >>
> > >> After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC
> > >> meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does
> > >> the evening of 1^st (eve of IGF) or 2^nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound
> > >> to all those who will be attending.
> > >>
> > >> I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF
> > >> should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting
> > >> to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the
> > >> IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad,
> > >> onwards.
> > >>
> > >> I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process.
> > >>
> > >> Parminder
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ---
> > >>
> > >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
> > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM
> > >> *To:* 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder'
> > >> *Subject:* RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless
> > >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
> > >>
> > >> Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before
> > >> pressing send. That was meant to be offlist….
> > >>
> > >> Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to
> > >> discuss in any case.
> > >>
> > >> Ian Peter
> > >>
> > >> PO Box 429
> > >>
> > >> Bangalow NSW 2479
> > >>
> > >> Australia
> > >>
> > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
> > >>
> > >> www.ianpeter.com
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ---
> > >>
> > >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com]
> > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 17:14
> > >> *To:* 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder'
> > >> *Subject:* OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless
> > >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
> > >>
> > >> Hi Parminder,
> > >>
> > >> Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before
> > >> Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night
> > >> before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in
> > >> early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something
> > >> like that seems important). I'll respond but will be interested to
> > >> see what others say first.
> > >>
> > >> On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for
> > >> your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release
> > >> names periodically as they are received and certainly before
> > >> Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post
> > >> Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add
> > >> names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I
> > >> think that might be the way to get the best field.
> > >>
> > >> All the best,
> > >>
> > >> Ian Peter
> > >>
> > >> PO Box 429
> > >>
> > >> Bangalow NSW 2479
> > >>
> > >> Australia
> > >>
> > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
> > >>
> > >> www.ianpeter.com
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ---
> > >>
> > >> *From:* Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net]
> > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 16:51
> > >> *To:* 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance';
> > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET'
> > >> *Subject:* RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced
> > >> marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
> > >>
> > >> >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some
> > >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we
> > >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues
> > >> (lest anyone take offence?)
> > >>
> > >> Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger.
> > >>
> > >> Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil
> > >> society's best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that
> > >> is relatively representative of people and groups across the
> > >> world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from
> > >> strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on
> > >> the other.
> > >>
> > >> However, many others in the civil society, including within the
> > >> IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind
> > >> strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue
> > >> has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity
> > >> of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive
> > >> inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding,
> > >> outputs on key IG issues.
> > >>
> > >> I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on
> > >> this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need
> > >> to be taken in view of current and emergent realities.
> > >>
> > >> It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the
> > >> danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of
> > >> any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would
> > >> it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In
> > >> light of such a review we may need to have clearer common
> > >> positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want
> > >> to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative
> > >> in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start
> > >> in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said
> > >> and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications
> > >> for this review.
> > >>
> > >> Parminder
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ---
> > >>
> > >> *From:* gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org]
> > >> *On Behalf Of *Ian Peter
> > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM
> > >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET'
> > >> *Cc:* 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance'
> > >> *Subject:* [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage
> > >> Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
> > >>
> > >> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the
> > >> opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and
> > >> avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time."
> > >>
> > >> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some
> > >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we
> > >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues
> > >> (lest anyone take offence?)
> > >>
> > >> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn't succeed in
> > >> addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does
> > >> succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick….
> > >>
> > >> Ian Peter
> > >>
> > >> PO Box 429
> > >>
> > >> Bangalow NSW 2479
> > >>
> > >> Australia
> > >>
> > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
> > >>
> > >> www.ianpeter.com
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ---
> > >>
> > >> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net]
> > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44
> > >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang
> > >> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance
> > >> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re:
> > >> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo
> > >>
> > >> Dear Wolfgang
> > >>
> > >> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most
> > >> notably about the IGF.
> > >>
> > >> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed.
> > >>
> > >> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate
> > >> actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was
> > >> established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at
> > >> the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around
> > >> and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of
> > >> time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And
> > >> that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that
> > >> we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize
> > >> the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-
> > >> related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data
> > >> protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of
> > >> Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about
> > >> Internet." It's an issue for everyone./
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Best Francis
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------
> > >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914
> > >>
> > >> 7 November 2008, 12:30
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>   *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage*
> > >>
> > >> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better
> > >> collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1]
> > >> * (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and
> > >> Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and
> > >> criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that,"
> > >> said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo.
> > >> According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each
> > >> other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications
> > >> and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage".
> > >>
> > >> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not
> > >> spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting.
> > >> Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his
> > >> organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage
> > >> and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively
> > >> describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely
> > >> cosmetic.
> > >>
> > >> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation,
> > >> which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-
> > >> internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further
> > >> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU.
> > >> Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations.
> > >> According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win
> > >> a war, is to prevent it."
> > >>
> > >> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively
> > >> to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he
> > >> noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with
> > >> which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*,
> > >> standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN),
> > >> cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child
> > >> protection online.
> > >>
> > >> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as
> > >> global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has
> > >> clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business."
> > >> However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its
> > >> *Cybersecurity Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global
> > >> framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality.
> > >> He also defended the controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard
> > >> proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's
> > >> just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré.
> > >>
> > >> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed
> > >> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector
> > >> members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs
> > >> as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the
> > >> *World Summit on the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit,
> > >> organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN
> > >> summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the
> > >> table, rather than demonstrating outside.
> > >>
> > >> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the
> > >> *Internet Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being
> > >> by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is
> > >> continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is
> > >> becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is
> > >> planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival
> > >> event.
> > >>
> > >> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work
> > >> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory
> > >> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was
> > >> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory
> > >> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system.
> > >> "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it."
> > >> The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted
> > >> Touré forthrightly.
> > >>
> > >> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian
> > >> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his
> > >> and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC".
> > >> Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by
> > >> contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very
> > >> different political models, "From the viewpoint of an
> > >> international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak,
> > >> because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an
> > >> international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he
> > >> opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between
> > >> interested parties. He noted that both models have their
> > >> advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn
> > >> to operate within both models.
> > >>
> > >> (//Monika Ermert//)
> > >>
> > >> (*lghp[9]*)
> > >>
> > >> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
> > >>
> > >> **URL of this Article:**
> > >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914
> > >>
> > >> **Links in this Article:**
> > >> [1] http://www.itu.int/
> > >> [2] http://www.icann.org
> > >> [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-
> > >> their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960
> > >> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking
> > >> [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/
> > >> [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html
> > >> [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS
> > >> [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/
> > >> [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk
> > >>
> > >> Dear friends
> > >>  find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent
> > >> ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very
> > >> interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the
> > >> principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very
> > >> clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion
> > >> and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual
> > >> debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of
> > >> cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of
> > >> an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a
> > >> network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and
> > >> coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century.   Wolfgang
> > >> ____________________________________________________________
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> > >> --
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> > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Anja Kovacs
> > > Senior Research Associate
> > >
> > > IT for Change
> > > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities
> > > Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890
> > >
> > > www.ITforChange.net
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> > > http://India.IS-Watch.net
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