the first option will be ok.<br><br>Baudouin<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2008/11/16 Ian Peter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Can people give an idea of their preference for a meeting? The choices seem<br>
to be<br>
<br><span style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">
2nd (day before IGF) at 1830 (after Giganet business meeting)</span><br>
3rd (after 1st day of IGF) probably about 1745 after sessions finish<br>
<br>
I'm tending towards the 2nd - if so, we should try to keep the meeting to no<br>
more than one hour as it will have been a long day for some. But please give<br>
an idea of which you prefer.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ian Peter<br>
PO Box 429<br>
Bangalow NSW 2479<br>
Australia<br>
Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773<br>
<a href="http://www.ianpeter.com" target="_blank">www.ianpeter.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:<a href="mailto:marzouki@ras.eu.org">marzouki@ras.eu.org</a>]<br>
> Sent: 11 November 2008 06:04<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad<br>
><br>
> Hi Anja and all<br>
><br>
> You're right, the IGF starts on the 3rd (Wednesday), and GigaNet<br>
> symposium is held on the 2nd, until 18:30.<br>
> Having an IGC meeting right after GigaNet business meeting (i.e.<br>
> 18:30-20:30) could be an option, especially since, most probably, we<br>
> could keep the same room (Parminder, I can ask if you want me to do<br>
> so, since I'm anyhow in contact with the IGF secretariat and with<br>
> HICC event manager re: logistics issues).<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> Meryem<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Meryem Marzouki - <a href="http://www.iris.sgdg.org" target="_blank">http://www.iris.sgdg.org</a><br>
> IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire<br>
> 40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris<br>
><br>
><br>
> Le 10 nov. 08 à 08:32, Anja a écrit :<br>
><br>
> > Param, doesn't the IGF start on the 3rd?<br>
> ><br>
> > Anja<br>
> ><br>
> > Parminder wrote:<br>
> >><br>
> >> Ian<br>
> >><br>
> >> After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC<br>
> >> meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does<br>
> >> the evening of 1^st (eve of IGF) or 2^nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound<br>
> >> to all those who will be attending.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF<br>
> >> should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting<br>
> >> to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the<br>
> >> IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad,<br>
> >> onwards.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Parminder<br>
> >><br>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >> ---<br>
> >><br>
> >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>]<br>
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM<br>
> >> *To:* 'Ian Peter'; <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>; 'Parminder'<br>
> >> *Subject:* RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless<br>
> >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo<br>
> >><br>
> >> Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before<br>
> >> pressing send. That was meant to be offlist….<br>
> >><br>
> >> Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to<br>
> >> discuss in any case.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Ian Peter<br>
> >><br>
> >> PO Box 429<br>
> >><br>
> >> Bangalow NSW 2479<br>
> >><br>
> >> Australia<br>
> >><br>
> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773<br>
> >><br>
> >> <a href="http://www.ianpeter.com" target="_blank">www.ianpeter.com</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >> ---<br>
> >><br>
> >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>]<br>
> >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 17:14<br>
> >> *To:* '<a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>'; 'Parminder'<br>
> >> *Subject:* OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless<br>
> >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo<br>
> >><br>
> >> Hi Parminder,<br>
> >><br>
> >> Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before<br>
> >> Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night<br>
> >> before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in<br>
> >> early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something<br>
> >> like that seems important). I'll respond but will be interested to<br>
> >> see what others say first.<br>
> >><br>
> >> On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for<br>
> >> your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release<br>
> >> names periodically as they are received and certainly before<br>
> >> Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post<br>
> >> Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add<br>
> >> names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I<br>
> >> think that might be the way to get the best field.<br>
> >><br>
> >> All the best,<br>
> >><br>
> >> Ian Peter<br>
> >><br>
> >> PO Box 429<br>
> >><br>
> >> Bangalow NSW 2479<br>
> >><br>
> >> Australia<br>
> >><br>
> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773<br>
> >><br>
> >> <a href="http://www.ianpeter.com" target="_blank">www.ianpeter.com</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >> ---<br>
> >><br>
> >> *From:* Parminder [mailto:<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>]<br>
> >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 16:51<br>
> >> *To:* 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance';<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET'<br>
> >> *Subject:* RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced<br>
> >> marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo<br>
> >><br>
> >> >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some<br>
> >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we<br>
> >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues<br>
> >> (lest anyone take offence?)<br>
> >><br>
> >> Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil<br>
> >> society's best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that<br>
> >> is relatively representative of people and groups across the<br>
> >> world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from<br>
> >> strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on<br>
> >> the other.<br>
> >><br>
> >> However, many others in the civil society, including within the<br>
> >> IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind<br>
> >> strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue<br>
> >> has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity<br>
> >> of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive<br>
> >> inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding,<br>
> >> outputs on key IG issues.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on<br>
> >> this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need<br>
> >> to be taken in view of current and emergent realities.<br>
> >><br>
> >> It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the<br>
> >> danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of<br>
> >> any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would<br>
> >> it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In<br>
> >> light of such a review we may need to have clearer common<br>
> >> positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want<br>
> >> to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative<br>
> >> in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start<br>
> >> in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said<br>
> >> and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications<br>
> >> for this review.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Parminder<br>
> >><br>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >> ---<br>
> >><br>
> >> *From:* <a href="mailto:gov-bounces@wsis-gov.org">gov-bounces@wsis-gov.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:gov-bounces@wsis-gov.org">gov-bounces@wsis-gov.org</a>]<br>
> >> *On Behalf Of *Ian Peter<br>
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM<br>
> >> *To:* <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET'<br>
> >> *Cc:* 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance'<br>
> >> *Subject:* [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage<br>
> >> Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo<br>
> >><br>
> >> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the<br>
> >> opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and<br>
> >> avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time."<br>
> >><br>
> >> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some<br>
> >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we<br>
> >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues<br>
> >> (lest anyone take offence?)<br>
> >><br>
> >> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn't succeed in<br>
> >> addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does<br>
> >> succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick….<br>
> >><br>
> >> Ian Peter<br>
> >><br>
> >> PO Box 429<br>
> >><br>
> >> Bangalow NSW 2479<br>
> >><br>
> >> Australia<br>
> >><br>
> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773<br>
> >><br>
> >> <a href="http://www.ianpeter.com" target="_blank">www.ianpeter.com</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
> >> ---<br>
> >><br>
> >> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:<a href="mailto:muguet@mdpi.net">muguet@mdpi.net</a>]<br>
> >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44<br>
> >> *To:* <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>; Wolfgang<br>
> >> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance<br>
> >> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re:<br>
> >> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo<br>
> >><br>
> >> Dear Wolfgang<br>
> >><br>
> >> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most<br>
> >> notably about the IGF.<br>
> >><br>
> >> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed.<br>
> >><br>
> >> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate<br>
> >> actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was<br>
> >> established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at<br>
> >> the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around<br>
> >> and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of<br>
> >> time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And<br>
> >> that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that<br>
> >> we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize<br>
> >> the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-<br>
> >> related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data<br>
> >> protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of<br>
> >> Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about<br>
> >> Internet." It's an issue for everyone./<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> Best Francis<br>
> >><br>
> >> ---------------------------------<br>
> >> <a href="http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914" target="_blank">http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> 7 November 2008, 12:30<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage*<br>
> >><br>
> >> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better<br>
> >> collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1]<br>
> >> * (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and<br>
> >> Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and<br>
> >> criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that,"<br>
> >> said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo.<br>
> >> According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each<br>
> >> other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications<br>
> >> and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage".<br>
> >><br>
> >> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not<br>
> >> spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting.<br>
> >> Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his<br>
> >> organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage<br>
> >> and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively<br>
> >> describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely<br>
> >> cosmetic.<br>
> >><br>
> >> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation,<br>
> >> which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-<br>
> >> internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further<br>
> >> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU.<br>
> >> Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations.<br>
> >> According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win<br>
> >> a war, is to prevent it."<br>
> >><br>
> >> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively<br>
> >> to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he<br>
> >> noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with<br>
> >> which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*,<br>
> >> standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN),<br>
> >> cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child<br>
> >> protection online.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as<br>
> >> global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has<br>
> >> clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business."<br>
> >> However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its<br>
> >> *Cybersecurity Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global<br>
> >> framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality.<br>
> >> He also defended the controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard<br>
> >> proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's<br>
> >> just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed<br>
> >> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector<br>
> >> members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs<br>
> >> as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the<br>
> >> *World Summit on the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit,<br>
> >> organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN<br>
> >> summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the<br>
> >> table, rather than demonstrating outside.<br>
> >><br>
> >> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the<br>
> >> *Internet Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being<br>
> >> by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is<br>
> >> continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is<br>
> >> becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is<br>
> >> planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival<br>
> >> event.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work<br>
> >> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory<br>
> >> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was<br>
> >> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory<br>
> >> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system.<br>
> >> "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it."<br>
> >> The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted<br>
> >> Touré forthrightly.<br>
> >><br>
> >> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian<br>
> >> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his<br>
> >> and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC".<br>
> >> Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by<br>
> >> contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very<br>
> >> different political models, "From the viewpoint of an<br>
> >> international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak,<br>
> >> because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an<br>
> >> international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he<br>
> >> opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between<br>
> >> interested parties. He noted that both models have their<br>
> >> advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn<br>
> >> to operate within both models.<br>
> >><br>
> >> (//Monika Ermert//)<br>
> >><br>
> >> (*lghp[9]*)<br>
> >><br>
> >> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center><br>
> >><br>
> >> **URL of this Article:**<br>
> >> <a href="http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914" target="_blank">http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> **Links in this Article:**<br>
> >> [1] <a href="http://www.itu.int/" target="_blank">http://www.itu.int/</a><br>
> >> [2] <a href="http://www.icann.org" target="_blank">http://www.icann.org</a><br>
> >> [3] <a href="http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-" target="_blank">http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-</a><br>
> >> their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960<br>
> >> [4] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking</a><br>
> >> [5] <a href="http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/" target="_blank">http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/</a><br>
> >> [6] <a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html" target="_blank">http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html</a><br>
> >> [7] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS</a><br>
> >> [8] <a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/" target="_blank">http://www.intgovforum.org/</a><br>
> >> [9] mailto:<a href="mailto:lghp@heise-online.co.uk">lghp@heise-online.co.uk</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> Dear friends<br>
> >> find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent<br>
> >> ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very<br>
> >> interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the<br>
> >> principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very<br>
> >> clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion<br>
> >> and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual<br>
> >> debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of<br>
> >> cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of<br>
> >> an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a<br>
> >> network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and<br>
> >> coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang<br>
> >> ____________________________________________________________<br>
> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>><br>
> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to:<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:governance-">governance-</a><br>
> >> <a href="mailto:unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a>><br>
> >> For all list information and functions, see:<br>
> >> <a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a><br>
> >><br>
> >> --<br>
> >><br>
> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.<br>
> >> Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com</a><br>
> >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date:<br>
> >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM<br>
> >><br>
> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date.<br>
> >> Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com</a><br>
> >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date:<br>
> >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM<br>
> >><br>
> ><br>
> > --<br>
> > Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
> > Senior Research Associate<br>
> ><br>
> > IT for Change<br>
> > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities<br>
> > Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890<br>
> ><br>
> > <a href="http://www.ITforChange.net" target="_blank">www.ITforChange.net</a><br>
> > <a href="http://www.IS-Watch.net" target="_blank">www.IS-Watch.net</a><br>
> > <a href="http://India.IS-Watch.net" target="_blank">http://India.IS-Watch.net</a><br>
> > ____________________________________________________________<br>
> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
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> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:<br>
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> ><br>
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><br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN<br>COORDONNATEUR NATIONAL REPRONTIC<br>COORDONNATEUR SOUS REGIONAL ACSIS/AFRIQUE CENTRALE<br>MEMBRE FACILITATEUR GAID AFRIQUE<br>téléphone fixe: +243 1510 34 91<br>
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