[governance] The New Class: Civil Society Professionals?

[George Sadowsky]

Suresh,

Perhaps Willie is talking about me when he talks about people who 
carry the flag for ICANN.

I carry a flag for ICANN when and only when I believe that it is 
acting in the best interests of the Internet as a whole.  I did the 
same thing for years when I was deeply involved in the Internet 
Society.

My goal is to support those organizations that I believe are working 
for an Internet that is increasingly accessible, affordable and 
available so that everyone can benefit from the multitude of benefits 
that it can provide.  God knows the world is sufficiently screwed up 
that we need all the help we can get.  (I am fully conscious that my 
country, the United States, bears its share of the blame for this  -- 
led, BTW, by a president who does engage in crude and useless rigid 
characterizations of people and of countries.)

I think that "civil society" representation on the IGF Advisory Group 
and within ICANN has a mixed record with respect to that objective. 
What I have observed in the past that I think is counterproductive is 
a relatively uncompromising defense of particularly U.S. liberal 
norms that comes into conflict with progress on making the Internet 
grow and be useful.  I'm not against the liberal norms, and I count 
myself as a liberal, but there is a real issue of how one makes 
progress in a multi-cultural space and to what extent one should look 
for progress vs. ideological purity.  BTW, this is not to say that 
"civil society" has not contributed positively to those discussions 
also.

In Jeremy's discussion of whether ICANN is civil society or not, I 
think the question is not meaningful.  If one is to make it 
meaningful, one needs a non-trivial and relatively precise definition 
of "civil society" that can be agreed upon.  I suspect that may not 
be possible.  If it were possible, then one could discuss what 
representation of "civil society" means, and under what terms it is 
granted, accepted, and/or acknowledged.  Is this a challenge for this 
group: Define civil Society.

I really like Karl's characterization of the relative uselessness of 
classification of people by certain of their characteristics.  We all 
have multiple dimensions of conflicts, yet somehow in real life most 
of us manage to reach an accommodation with ourselves and others most 
of the time.  Rigid classifications are generally non-productive at 
best and highly destructive at worst.

Milton, I am not surprised by your lack of trust of certain people in 
the I* space, but I respectfully suggest that part of this may be 
your problem, not theirs.  Perhaps you could relate specific examples 
in some detail of where you believe that your trust has been betrayed 
and violated in a very fundamental and direct manner   ---   as 
opposed to situations in which a legitimate compromise of objectives 
was made.

George

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At 7:08 PM -0700 5/23/08, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>wcurrie at apc.org [23/05/08 21:05 +0000]:
>>doubt intends them to be. And when they are backed up by some members of
>>this caucus who carry a flag for ICANN, then the remarks begin to be part
>>of ICANN's negative PR machine - like political candidates putting out
>
>Willie, whoever gave you the idea that I, for example, or maybe McTim, are
>carrying flags for ICANN?  Or that this is all part of an elaborate swift
>boat operation?  Not that "the other side" (aka the liberal all the way to
>radical liberal left, like moveon.org) have clean hands on that sort of
>thing, but I digress..
>
>Please dont insult your intelligence, and ours, by mistaking deep
>frustration with this process, and with its being virtually hijacked, with
>a swift boat campaign.  He seems to be in the position of the prophet
>Jeremiah here, making these dire predictions that you're not getting the
>meaning of.
>
>If you have read previous posts on his blog, you would know that this is in
>no way different from the views he normally holds, and frankly expresses.
>
>>If I were in charge of ICANN or ISOC's public relations department, I
>>would have a serious concern about these two issues: that representatives
>>of the internet technical community on the MAG are perceived to be
>>gatekeepers in their own interest to the detriment of the IGF mandate on
>>open policy dialogue  and that someone like Veni is operating a 'swift
>>boat' campaign apparently with the support of senior individuals in the
>>internet technical community.
>
>And if I were in charge of ICANN or ISOC's PR (and I know enough people
>from the technical community who have previously served in senior roles in
>ISOC), I would react with shock to see that what is ALSO a bitter criticism
>of icann is being interpreted as a swiftboating campaign somehow engineered
>by ICANN/ISOC PR
>
>Oh, and I applaud Veni here.
>
>	suresh
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