[governance] Re: Does Africa Need Help?

Nyangkwe Agien Aaron nyangkweagien at gmail.com
Fri Jun 20 09:44:47 EDT 2008 

Hi David

Alluding to my analysis as a threat. You appear to be in the Hitler
world where Goebbel's window dreesing words were tolerated.
You know what happened? Hitler did not get the true story of what was
happy on the war front and therefore lost the war.
I am just trying to analyse a situation and project the outcome. I
don't thing that I hav th capacity offer threats.
LET NO ONE GET SCARED AT ALL

Aaron


On 6/20/08, David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> Hi Aaron et al,
>
> First comment is thread is undoubtedly outside of the remit of this list.
>
> Second is I agree the west has failed Africa in many ways. I was happy to admit this. But there are some comments that ignore Africa's leader's role in the poor state of governance in the country. Maybe they know this but didn't feel it was necessary to say it, maybe they don't want to admit the obvious. So yes, the west has supported, and still does, deplorable leaders in Africa. That said, and off the top of my head I can't recall who they are, but there are some excellent leaders in Africa who do a very good job given the circumstances. Some of them even get excellent western aid. It's a very complicated issue.
>
> Also, while you mention some of the west's leader's deplorable actions in supporting detestable leaders in Africa, Africa itself has done itself no favours in supporting their fellow deplorable leaders. Witness, until in recent weeks, the almost deafening silence among Africa's leaders at condemning Mugabe. Mbeki here, by most accounts, has failed miserably when he was given the opportunity by the west to show he could be a statesman.
>
> And if Zimbabwe had rich mineral resources, it would be interesting to see how different the west's actions would have been!
>
> So yes, I acknowledge the west has failed Africa badly in many areas, especially when they were colonial rulers. There are still problems ongoing as a result of these times. But there is a time when Africans, and especially their leaders, need to take some responsibility.
>
> Both sides have failed the African continent's people. There are some shining lights, but not enough unfortunately.
>
> And if anyone wants to discuss this further with me, I shall continue it as private discussion given this is an internet governance list!
>
> David
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron <nyangkweagien at gmail.com>
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au>
> Sent: Friday, 20 June, 2008 9:11:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [governance] Re: Does Africa Need Help?
>
> David
>
> I agree with you on the currupt nature of our African leaders. But
> mark you, it takes two to tango. Th West do not like un corrupt
> African leaders, except the immunized ones like the venerable Nelson
> Mandela.
> African leaders that hav their peopl at hart ar done away by th West
> (Patric Lumumba,  Thomasq Sankara) while kleptocrats and election
> riggers are given rd carpet treatrment by th West (Paul Biya, Omar
> Bongo et all. Th hoollibaloo on Mugabe is all against his nationalist
> instinct. Although the Zimbwabwe laeder stands faultd for lack of
> clarvoyance.
> Thomas asked this memorable question in his book, Common Sense:"are
> you defending us against our enemies for our behalf or you are
> dfending us against our enemies on your behalve"
> Why is the West so vocal on Mugabe and not on Paul Biya of Cameroon,
> whose country is going through the worst conomic-cum social crisis but
> he continus to rig himselv to power. The Amricans    have acquired
> land near the Cameroon  Presidential palace (for free? I do not know)
> where they have a sumptious building and are all contended with that.
> They were not even moved when Cameroon Police men stormed their
> Embassy and arrested  a human rights activist (Joe La Conscince) and
> incarcerated him for 4 months.
> On another point David, what is this organization called UNDP doing if
> Africa, if not to enshrine a refine corruption practise mapped out by
> the West.
> I humbly believe that the hardened position within Islamist
> fundamentalism is caused by certain frustration that the West has
> faild to look into. And the hardened positions have grown up to
> outcast terrorism.
> I am afraid that in the next 30 years, de--westernization in Africa
> may suffer the same fete. These are trying times, wrote Thomas Paine
> in Common Sense.
> There is a saying in my village (kugwe in North West Cameroon that say
> "Zorn azor chiri bongkirie mberng'nooh" . Translated, buy your
> umbrella before it starts to rain.
>
>
> On 6/20/08, David Goldstein <goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> > I don't disagree with these comments about the failings of western policies. It still doesn't take away from the fact that many African countries are corrupt and incompetent and nobody here seems to want to address this issue and instead want to blame African government's failings only on western policies.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Nyangkwe Agien Aaron <nyangkweagien at gmail.com>
> > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Daniel Oppermann <dan.oppermann at gmail.com>
> > Sent: Friday, 20 June, 2008 8:05:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: [governance] Re: Does Africa Need Help?
> >
> > Daniel
> >
> > You hit the nail at th right point.
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> > On 6/19/08, Daniel Oppermann <dan.oppermann at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I understood Stephane's comment in a different way. To me it seems that
> > > he put the finger on the fact that Northern (or Western or
> > > industrialized) countries do not spend money on development politics
> > > just because they are "nice" but because it serves their own interests.
> > >
> > > Development politics started during the Cold War to make sure who is on
> > > your side. For the reason of national interests today the financial
> > > flows go mainly to Asian and African countries almost ignoring poverty,
> > > civil war and the question of failing states in Latin America. Looking
> > > on the positive aspect: Latin American governments have to resolve their
> > > problems on their own or with regional support which is definitely
> > > better than waiting for someone to fix the problem.
> > >
> > > Here is an interesting paper about the effectiveness of aid politics:
> > >
> > > http://www.iadb.org/IDBDocs.cfm?docnum=1158725
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > David Goldstein schrieb:
> > > > Stephane's comment is just like saying all African governments are
> > > incompetent and corrupt. It's partly true, it's changing, but definitely not
> > > always the case.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer at internatif.org>
> > > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Nyangkwe Agien Aaron
> > > <nyangkweagien at gmail.com>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, 19 June, 2008 7:53:05 PM
> > > > Subject: [governance] Re: Does Africa Needs Help?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Some recipient governments grasp exactly what donors want to hear,
> > > > > readily agreeing to 'capacity building' programmes emphasising
> > > > > increased accountability. They dutifully echo the donor's jargon,
> > > > > while laughing behind our backs, and flicking through the latest
> > > > > Mercedes catalogue for their new ministerial limousine.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > A long paper to avoid the obvious conclusion: aid is not intended to
> > > > help the local people but to subsidize northern industries such as
> > > > Mercedes (as in the above example) or Cisco (to take a example closer
> > > > from our field). That way, most aid will come back to the North.
> > > >
> > > >
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> >
> > --
> > Aaron Agien Nyangkwe
> > Journalist/Outcome Mapper
> > Special Assistant To The President
> > Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team.
> > ASAFE
> > P.O.Box 5213
> > Douala-Cameroon
> > Tel. 237 3337 50 22
> > Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97
> > Fax. 237 3342 29 70
> > ____________________________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Aaron Agien Nyangkwe
> Journalist/Outcome Mapper
> Special Assistant To The President
> Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team.
> ASAFE
> P.O.Box 5213
> Douala-Cameroon
> Tel. 237 3337 50 22
> Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97
> Fax. 237 3342 29 70
>
>
>
>      Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
> www.yahoo7.com.au/mail
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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-- 
Aaron Agien Nyangkwe
Journalist/Outcome Mapper
Special Assistant To The President
Coach of ASAFE Camaroes Street Football Team.
ASAFE
P.O.Box 5213
Douala-Cameroon
Tel. 237 3337 50 22
Cell Phone: 237 79 95 71 97
Fax. 237 3342 29 70
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