[governance] Rights in IG research

[Jeffrey A. Williams]

Jeremy and all,

  Thank you for your comments, thoughts in response/reaction to
mine to Avri.

  The remainder of my response are below Jeremy's...

Jeremy Malcolm wrote:

> On 18/08/2008, at 9:49 AM, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:
>
> >  Rights Avri, and never disputable.  To suggest such is an exercise
> > in illogic of monumental proportions...  Rights either exist and are
> > recognized, or they are not.  In America we have "Enailiable Rights"
> > that phrase is self defining, it is not disputable legally.  It is
> > often
> > disputed on the edges, and as when a dispute is attempted, it is
> > usually resoundingly defeated, and pardon the pun, rightly so!
> >
> >  Recent Supreme court case regarding 2nd amendment right to
> > bare arms is such an example of the upholding properly of
> > "Enailiable Rights".  I believe this right *May* extend to the
> > Internet as well, given DDOS attacks, IPhijacking, Domain
> > Name Tasting, IDtheft due to poor security policies and
> > practices, Whois security breaches and accuracy dificiencies,
> > Fast-Fluxing, Domain Name Hijacking by Registrars a la RegistryFly,
> > Godaddy, and Enom, Phishing, ect., ect...
>
> Excuse me for saying so, but your thinking is extremely woolly here.
> Rights are indeed disputable, depending on their source.  In
> particular, the example you give of the right to bear arms under the
> US Constitution is certainly a legal right (in America), but is it
> generally also considered to be a (universal) moral right?  Absolutely
> not!  In fact you have chosen the most pilloried US constitutional
> right of all as your example.

  Incorrect in your first sentence, if you will excuse by direct manner
or style.  A "Right" once established is what it is, ergo a "Right" and
as such is and cannot be reasonably disputable, irrespective of the
source.

  It is true that the 2nd amendment is certainly not a universal moral
right in a global sense, but the preservation of ones own life is.  From
where I sit, the US Constitutional right to bare arms directly reflects
and relates to the International right to self preservation under
extreme
circumstances.

>
>
> Legally, the only universal rights are those contained in
> international law such as the International Covenant on Civil and
> Political Rights.  Morally, the content of human rights can be posited
> either by deontological (eg. Kantian) or teleological (eg.
> utilitarian) means.  Whilst the former is predominant (and
> philosophically grounds the International Covenant), in neither case
> is their content undisputable.  That is a dangerous proposition.

  The above seems to be mangled logic on it's face to a great degree.
As I have already stated in two different ways, the right of self
preservation
is not disputable irrespective of any political or extra moral
consideration.

>
>
> Going back to first principles, any universal human right posited by
> deontological means must be traced back to the fundamental human
> autonomy that is assumed to flow from their state of nature and be
> intuitively accepted by all in (at least liberal) society.  These
> include the inalienable rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of
> happiness" referred to in your Declaration of Independence, to which
> you have obliquely referred.

  I think your confuse the US "Bill of Rights" with the Declaration
of Independence in respect to "Rights" verses establishment of
the United States or America here.  Further, as to the rights of
life, and liberty, the right to won a bare arms directly applies and
in necessary at times and under some circumstances, to "Life
and Liberty" as you suggest such, and as you further suggest
as "Moral Rights" in any society, liberal or otherwise.

>
>
> Much more disputable as moral rights are the legal rights contained in
> the International Covenant on Economic and Social Rights.  Whilst in
> favour of such rights (eg. by Habermas) it is stated that an
> individual cannot act as an equally autonomous member of liberal
> society unless they are fed, clothed and educated, it is arguable that
> this does not require, for example, a human right to paid holidays, as
> the Covenant posits.

  Agreed here.

>
>
> The right to development that Milton questions is in the same
> category, only more so because not only is it debatable as a moral
> right, but it is not even a legal right under international law.  In
> my view the right to development is an aspiration rather than a right,
> but of course it is politically convenient for those advocating for it
> to clothe their aspirations in the language of universal rights.

  Sorry but I agree with Milton in that the pursuit of happiness would
likely, and I believe surely include by intent, the right to development
in a very broad sense.

>
>
> --
> Jeremy Malcolm LLB (Hons) B Com
> Internet and Open Source lawyer, IT consultant, actor
> host -t NAPTR 1.0.8.0.3.1.2.9.8.1.6.e164.org|awk -F! '{print $3}'

Regards,

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