[governance] Taking down a site [was: beijing ticket scam]
Ian Peter
ian.peter at ianpeter.com
Tue Aug 5 20:07:35 EDT 2008
Hi Rui,
Not sure I am best to answer, but as you addressed this to me I'll attempt a
reply and invite others closer to this to also pass on information.
Sounds like this is not a police matter. If it was breaking a law in your
country, that's a good place to start. If so, then they might be able to do
something in taking a site down if the site happens to have an owner, a
registry, a registrar, a server, and other pertinent attributes all located
in South Africa. (please those more knowledgeable here correct me if I am
wrong). Similarly, if there is a Human Rights Commissioner or equivalent in
the country concerned, they might be able to act if conditions as broadly
described above apply.
In this case we seem to be dealing with bad taste however. What top level
domain (or cctld) is involved? What is their policy (if they have one?) Is
the required action to remove the site, fix the offending content, issue a
warning? Would they undertake to do any of these or would they say we can
only act if this is a police matter?
And in this case, would those writing defend this as their right to free
speech, in which case additional parameters might come into play?
I don't think the answer is easy currently and matters that run close to
censorship issues will never be easy. However, do we need an equivalent of
UDRP (ICANN's Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy) to deal with
this? A bit of industry self regulation? Code of Content guidelines? Or an
Internet Ombudsman?
It's a difficult area as far as I can see.
Ian Peter
Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd
PO Box 10670 Adelaide St Brisbane 4000
Australia
Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
www.ianpeter.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rui Correia [mailto:correia.rui at gmail.com]
> Sent: 06 August 2008 05:56
> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter
> Subject: [governance] Taking down a site [was: beijing ticket scam]
>
> Hi Ian Peter
>
> Taking it up from your point about take-downs not being automatic
> without validation, perhaps you or others can shed some light on a
> parallel issue.
>
> In the past few days, I've come across two racist websites, full of
> hate speech, but not directly inciting racial hatred.
>
> Any idea where I can report these sites? Someone at international
> level or at national level in South Africa?
>
>
>
> On 04/08/2008, Ian Peter <ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
> > Thanks John. The site is now down, but I am interested in the process,
> as
> > this was a known scam since last March and was linked to via Forbes,
> MSNBC,
> > among others until they found out (somehow). And was live until a few
> hours
> > ago. That's a pretty healthy long life for such a site.
> >
> > So am I to understand that the response in this case is purely an
> industry
> > self regulation one (via MAAWG and/or APWG). I have no problem with
> industry
> > self-regulation per se, but is there no legal loop, no ICANN loop, or
> do
> > police and/or Interpol complain to MAAWG or APWG (either?). Or is that
> > optional?
> >
> >
> > I see your point that takedowns can't be automatic without some
> validation.
> > But as you say, this would be an excellent area for some governance
> > guidelines!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ian Peter
> > Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd
> >
> > PO Box 10670 Adelaide St Brisbane 4000
> >
> > Australia
> > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773
> > www.ianpeter.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Levine [mailto:icggov at johnlevine.com]
> > > Sent: 04 August 2008 23:42
> > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org
> > > Cc: ian.peter at ianpeter.com
> > > Subject: Re: [governance] beijing ticket scam - is this governed at
> all?
> > >
> > > >Very interested in analysis of why this is so when it is a known
> > > >major fraud site that has victims in many countries. Is there any
> > > >mechanism to stop major international scams?
> > >
> >
> > > Sort of, keeping in mind that this particular example is a minor scam,
> > > not a major one.
> > >
> > > There are probably several dozen scam sites like that set up every
> > > day. There are two interrelated problems -- one is that it's common
> > > for the registrar to be in one country, the web site in a second, and
> > > the mail servers sending promotional spam to be in yet a third
> through
> > > 50th. The other is that there's a great deal of finger pointing. Is
> > > the responsible party the registrar, eNom in this case? The hosting
> > > company where the web site is located, Servepath? The office-in-a-
> box
> > > in Arizona that's listed as their address? All of the above? MAAWG
> > > and the APWG have been working on setting up semi-formal contact
> > > systems to get registrars and hosters to take down bogus sites, but
> > > they can't just do a takedown on every random complaint, or else they
> > > get grief like Godaddy for turning off legitimate sites who have
> > > annoyed someone.
> > >
> > > This would be an excellent area for some governance guidelines. Too
> > > bad we're too busy deciding what font the ballots should be printed
> > > in.
> > >
> > > R's,
> > > John
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
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> > > Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1589 - Release Date:
> 8/3/2008
> > > 1:00 PM
> >
> >
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>
>
> --
> ________________________________________________
>
>
> Rui Correia
> Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant
> 2 Cutten St
> Horison
> Roodepoort-Johannesburg,
> South Africa
> Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336
> Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838
> _______________
> áâãçéêíóôõúç
> ____________________________________________________________
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> 6:03 AM
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