[governance] coordinator elections

[Parminder]

Avri

> yes. it seems to me the concept of membership matters when we do
> official caucus stuff - like vote.  or make nomcoms. or act as
> coordinators ...

Yes that's right. 

> i see no problem with including a statement about supporting the
> charter in the ballot as well as self describing as CS.  is this all
> you were asking for.  i misunderstood.  

Yes. As I said I am only trying to ensure that I have a voting list as per
charter, and also a members list which is both appropriate to have, and has
been asked for, legitimately, by some members.

i thought you wanted some sort
> of prior assertion of support for the charter as a prerequisite for
> receiving a ballot. whereas i think that the act of filling out the
> ballot is the assertion and the words included on the ballot are just
> a reminder of what it means to vote; ie. that you are CS and support
> the charter of the IGC..

It is easiest for me to be able to do both the processes in one step, as
long as the first step of charter affirmation is clear, and a condition for
the second. I would very much like to - solves my stated objective of
getting a members list and a voters list. Whether it CAN be done in a single
step is a matter of technical and process possibility, ensuring other
requirements that the votes remain secret etc. I had difficulty in coming up
with an automated process to do it in a single step, and will very much like
to explore that possibility.

But the questions remains what is so big an issue with two steps that we
have had to go through so many loops of arguments and counter-arguments on
this list, some getting into fairly personal ascriptions. I still have no
answer to this, and will very much like to have some illumination on this. 

You as a coordinator also choose some multiple processes of sending emails
affirming name etc which are not mentioned in the charter but you thought
they were right to do (rightly so). 

i thought you wanted some sort
> of prior assertion of support for the charter as a prerequisite for
> receiving a ballot.

It is still a 'prior assertion of support for the charter'. Whether non
asserting leads to an invalid vote or not receiving a ballot in no way
different in any substantive way. Is it? A one step or two step is only a
process possibility issue, I repeat. 

> ok:  i wonder, does signing a statement saying you support lofty stuff
> in vision and mission really mean anything? 

It matters to me. It matters to all CS people I mostly work with. As much as
I know it matters to any group, including a corporate group, working with
any kind of sincerity and purposefulness. 


  and even if it does mean
> something personally, why do you think that other people's
> interpretations of what the lofty stuff means bears any resemblance to
> what you think it means or what i think it means?

I wonder Avri why you/ we spent all the time on writing the charter. We did
not require it to register with a gov authority, did we? We wrote it because
we thought it had a collective meaning for us, but you say it doesn't have
one for you.

Parminder 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 12:20 PM
> To: Governance Caucus
> Subject: Re: [governance] coordinator elections
> 
> 
> On 24 Apr 2008, at 02:13, Parminder wrote:
> 
> >>
> >> that membership is up to each of the individual participants
> >
> > You again seem to make the distinction between member and
> > participant, which
> > I used to develop my logic in the last email, in interpreting the
> > charter.
> 
> yes. it seems to me the concept of membership matters when we do
> official caucus stuff - like vote.  or make nomcoms. or act as
> coordinators ...
> 
> >> with no
> >> need for any declaration except for when doing things like voting.
> >
> >
> > I also asked it at the time of voting only, and for the purpose of
> > voting.
> 
> then we are in agreement?
> 
> > Still cant understand why we wrote that line in membership clause '
> > who
> > subscribe to the charter of the caucus'.
> 
> i see no problem with including a statement about supporting the
> charter in the ballot as well as self describing as CS.  is this all
> you were asking for.  i misunderstood.  i thought you wanted some sort
> of prior assertion of support for the charter as a prerequisite for
> receiving a ballot. whereas i think that the act of filling out the
> ballot is the assertion and the words included on the ballot are just
> a reminder of what it means to vote; ie. that you are CS and support
> the charter of the IGC..
> 
> > In this spirit I expect to soon
> > hear that all that lofty stuff in vision and mission, and objectives
> > is also
> > as meaningless.
> 
> ok:  i wonder, does signing a statement saying you support lofty stuff
> in vision and mission really mean anything?   and even if it does mean
> something personally, why do you think that other people's
> interpretations of what the lofty stuff means bears any resemblance to
> what you think it means or what i think it means?
> 
> 
> > There is no group upholding any special collective vision
> > and values and seeking to organize to do some specific set of
> > activities in
> > direction of certain goals. Well..
> 
> 
> i think the stuff the caucus does or doesn't do is what matters.  and
> after one looks back at the product of the IGC one will be able to see
> if those lofty vision words meant something and what they actually
> meant.
> 
> a.
> 
> ____________________________________________________________
> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
>      governance at lists.cpsr.org
> To be removed from the list, send any message to:
>      governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org
> 
> For all list information and functions, see:
>      http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance


____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
     governance at lists.cpsr.org
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org

For all list information and functions, see:
     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance