[governance] Reinstate the Vote

Wed Nov 21 07:07:49 EST 2007

I do take your point about feedback  potentially going into a black hole,
when it is sent directly to an organization .. and the somewhat one sided
nature of such feedback as compared to discussion on mailing lists.

ICANN did something good in hiring Kieren, till recently a fairly vocal, and
non poisonous, accurate critic of quite a lot that was ICANN related. 

The problem of course is that comment processes can be deluged with
astroturf (for example this little initiative of the IGPs..
http://www.circleid.com/posts/send_a_message_to_ntia/) .. and in such cases,
the recipient of those comments 

1.       Counts the number of comments, treats them all as one comment with
a certain degree of support

2.       Sees if anybody important (or influential) is making those comments

If theres enough (read: thousands rather than a few dozen) such comments,
or if someone important makes them, theres a certain value to the
astroturfing.

Else, reasoned position papers, and an open mind to discuss those papers
does help.  What doesnt help is shrill abuse and innuendo masquerading as
public policy or academic research.

Just about the same rules apply to mailing lists, e&oe the rather instant
response timelines involved.

                srs

From: Bertrand de La Chapelle [mailto:bdelachapelle at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:24 PM
To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Dan Krimm; Suresh Ramasubramanian
Subject: Re: RE: [governance] Reinstate the Vote

Dear Dan and Suresh,

Interesting exchange about the time taken to write. It just illustrates the
difference between a debate (as it dynamically erupts from time to time on
this list) and a contribution to a consultation process where you do not
know whether somebody is going to actually even read it. 

This is the core of the discussion and the vicious circle that Kieren was
describing. The whole thing is about feedback loops. In a mailing list
discussion, the feedback is immediate, prompting people to reply and
immediately nurture the thread. In public consultations,  people with busy
schedules postpone their contribution until it is too late, often because
they want to "polish" it, feeling it is more formal. 

For information, Peter Dengate Thrush, during a workshop we organized in Rio
on "multi-stakeholder policy development" made a very precise comment in
that regard, saying that there is a "need to give feedback on inputs and
give recognition to those who contribute".  I think the notion is sinking
in. 

This thread was useful if it encourages ICANN (and Kieren in his function)
to address two elements :
- how to make sure that submissions to consultations are duly taken into
account and addressed in the PDP : this includes drafting summaries of
comments and explicit comments on why suggestions were not retained (yes,
it's additional work but important) 
- how to encourage more dynamic and informal contributions, including
potentially taking into account threads on this governance list (short
synthetic papers could be posted on this list by Kieren to start threads
like the one we are participating in now, the comments could be taken into
account in the summary or people could submit summary contributions after
reviewing the exchange, like I try to do here). 

Hope this helps moving the ball forward.

Best

Bertrand

On Nov 21, 2007 6:41 AM, Dan Krimm <dan at musicunbound.com> wrote: 

At 10:52 AM +0530 11/21/07, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:
>Dan Krimm wrote: 
>
>> Short answer: I didn't have the time, at the time, due to other
>> pressing obligations.
>>
>> Even though I spend a good deal of time paying attention to IG and
>> ICANN issues, I don't get paid a farthing for it, and it has to take a 
>back
>
>.. and the time difference between ranting on mailing lists and  blogs
about
>ICANN, and submitting these as comments to ICANN is ... ?

That was then, and this is now.

If I'd had this much disposable time available then, I would have done it
then.  My schedule is not particularly regular, and I can only do so many
things simultaneously.  Sometimes I have it, and sometimes I don't. 

Real life gets in the way of cyberspace sometimes.  I suppose you're going
to criticize me for that?

I am skeptical of your implied skepticism.

:-)

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-- 
____________________
Bertrand de La Chapelle
Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32

"Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de Saint
Exupéry 
("there is no better mission for humans than uniting humans") 

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