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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I do take your point about feedback potentially going into a
black hole, when it is sent directly to an organization .. and the somewhat one
sided nature of such feedback as compared to discussion on mailing lists.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>ICANN did something good in hiring Kieren, till recently a
fairly vocal, and non poisonous, accurate critic of quite a lot that was ICANN
related. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The problem of course is that comment processes can be deluged
with astroturf (for example this little initiative of the IGPs.. <a
href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/send_a_message_to_ntia/">http://www.circleid.com/posts/send_a_message_to_ntia/</a>)
.. and in such cases, the recipient of those comments <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:23.25pt;text-indent:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Counts
the number of comments, treats them all as one comment with a certain degree of
support<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='margin-left:23.25pt;text-indent:-.25in;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span
style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Sees
if anybody important (or influential) is making those comments<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>If there’s enough (read: thousands rather than a few
dozen) such comments, or if someone important makes them, there’s a
certain value to the astroturfing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Else, reasoned position papers, and an open mind to discuss
those papers does help. What doesn’t help is shrill abuse and innuendo masquerading
as public policy or academic research.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Just about the same rules apply to mailing lists, e&oe the
rather instant response timelines involved.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> srs<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Bertrand de La
Chapelle [mailto:bdelachapelle@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> governance@lists.cpsr.org; Dan Krimm; Suresh Ramasubramanian<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: RE: [governance] Reinstate the Vote<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Dear Dan and Suresh,<br>
<br>
Interesting exchange about the time taken to write. It just illustrates the
difference between a debate (as it dynamically erupts from time to time on this
list) and a contribution to a consultation process where you do not know
whether somebody is going to actually even read it. <br>
<br>
This is the core of the discussion and the vicious circle that Kieren was
describing. The whole thing is about <u>feedback loops</u>. In a mailing list
discussion, the feedback is immediate, prompting people to reply and
immediately nurture the thread. In public consultations, people with busy
schedules postpone their contribution until it is too late, often because they
want to "polish" it, feeling it is more formal. <br>
<br>
For information, Peter Dengate Thrush, during a workshop we organized in Rio on
"multi-stakeholder policy development" made a very precise comment in
that regard, saying that there is a "need to give feedback on inputs and
give recognition to those who contribute". I think the notion is
sinking in. <br>
<br>
This thread was useful if it encourages ICANN (and Kieren in his function) to
address two elements :<br>
- how to make sure that submissions to consultations are duly taken into
account and addressed in the PDP : this includes drafting summaries of comments
and explicit comments on why suggestions were not retained (yes, it's
additional work but important) <br>
- how to encourage more dynamic and informal contributions, including
potentially taking into account threads on this governance list (short
synthetic papers could be posted on this list by Kieren to start threads like
the one we are participating in now, the comments could be taken into account
in the summary or people could submit summary contributions after reviewing the
exchange, like I try to do here). <br>
<br>
Hope this helps moving the ball forward.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
<br>
Bertrand<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 21, 2007 6:41 AM, Dan Krimm <<a
href="mailto:dan@musicunbound.com">dan@musicunbound.com</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>At 10:52 AM +0530 11/21/07,
Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:<br>
>Dan Krimm wrote: <br>
><br>
>> Short answer: I didn't have the time, at the time, due to other<br>
>> pressing obligations.<br>
>><br>
>> Even though I spend a good deal of time paying attention to IG and<br>
>> ICANN issues, I don't get paid a farthing for it, and it has to take a
<br>
>back<br>
><br>
>.. and the time difference between ranting on mailing lists and blogs
about<br>
>ICANN, and submitting these as comments to ICANN is ... ?<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>That was then, and this is now.<br>
<br>
If I'd had this much disposable time available then, I would have done it<br>
then. My schedule is not particularly regular, and I can only do so many<br>
things simultaneously. Sometimes I have it, and sometimes I don't. <br>
<br>
Real life gets in the way of cyberspace sometimes. I suppose you're going<br>
to criticize me for that?<br>
<br>
I am skeptical of your implied skepticism.<br>
<br>
:-)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
____________________<br>
Bertrand de La Chapelle<br>
Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32<br>
<br>
"Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de
Saint Exupéry <br>
("there is no better mission for humans than uniting humans") <o:p></o:p></p>
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