[governance] Are Internet users powerless or empowered, and how?

[George Sadowsky]

Dan,

I would disagree that low costs and more consumer choice, as reported 
by Veni, support Karl's claim of powerlessness.

Every country has an ISP industry, shaped by competitive forces, 
history, and the legislative and regulatory environment in which it 
exists.   These determine the structure, conduct, and behavior of the 
actors in ISP industry.  In the US, it depends where you are.  If 
you're in Washington, you have lots of choices; if you're in Hanover, 
New Hampshire, you have at most two.   There are locations in the US 
where there are no broadband choices.  Some countries, especially 
those that are geographically compact, can offer more comprehensive 
broadband connectivity in similar policy environments.

Users are not made powerless by connectivity prices that are above 
lower costs available elsewhere in the world.  The ARE made powerless 
by lack of any connectivity or by connectivity that is outrageously 
expensive.

I would like to stress that these are national and local problems, 
and not international problems except to the extent that they are 
replicated in country after country.  To the extent that they exist, 
I argue that this is a case for telecommunications reform at the 
national and local level, and that we should be working with 
governments, as well as other sectors of society, to demonstrate the 
benefits of liberalization for this sector.

On the one had, I think that it's terrific that Bulgarians have all 
kinds of choices with respect to the purchase of Internet 
connectivity.  On the other hand, I don't think that users in other 
countries are necessarily substantially disadvantaged by that.  We 
need to work with all countries to enable them to understand the 
opportunity costs of not liberalizing, so that they can make the 
Internet even more of an empowering tool than it is already.

I would argue that institutional governance of the Internet is 
important, but less important than seeing that user needs are met. 
They are clearly interrelated, but identifying needs comes first, and 
then governance arrangements that maximize meeting those identified 
needs should follow.

Form should follow function.  I think that tends to be forgotten for 
a number of postings on this list.  Let's focus first on real needs 
and then how to best meet them.  Let's also remember that when we 
talk about Internet users, the great majority of them don't have 
domain names, so it's not the domain name industry that we should be 
focusing on but the user community as a whole, at present and to a 
fair extent, in the future also.

George

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


At 3:40 PM -0800 11/30/07, Dan Krimm wrote:
>Indeed, Veni, competition in consumer broadband last-mile connectivity
>service in the US is dreadfully low.
>
>So, all that really does is support Karl's claim of end user powerlessness
>that George was disputing.  It seems to me that Karl was just allowing
>George's point without deep analysis (or perhaps Karl was thinking about
>domain-hosting services, independent of last-mile connectivity, where
>competition remains quite robust even in the US -- "ISP" may not be a very
>precise term anymore) because Karl was making a different point about power
>in institutional structures of political governance, rather than power in a
>commercial marketplace (two *very* different realms).
>
>Please, this is just a "gotcha" tactic of rhetorical distraction, and
>brings us off point from what Karl and George are really trying to discuss,
>which is a substantive issue of real significance.
>
>This is precisely part of the "noise" that dilutes productive discussion on
>this list.  There was really no need for this comment at all, and nothing
>was really gained by it, unless you were simply trying to spuriously
>undermine trust in Karl as an individual speaker.  That is not a
>substantive topic.
>
>As long as we're trying to clear the list of ad hominems, can we please try
>to clear this stuff off too?  It dissipates the substantive focus of
>discussions on the list, and that's good for no one except those who wish
>to obstruct and distract from such productive discussion.
>
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
>
>
>At 3:31 PM -0500 11/30/07, Veni Markovski wrote:
>>At 11:20 11/30/2007  -0800, Karl wrote:
>>
>>>For example, yes, we users have great power in the marketplace to
>>>select ISP's and the like.
>>
>>This sounds strange. At least in New York City there is a choice -
>>between cable Internet and Verizon. Both are at the same price, more
>>or less. Is this really a choice? Compare: in Sofia, Bulgaria you can
>>choose among about 20 big ISPs, and about 500 smaller  (true, in the
>>whole city, not each of them covers all of the buildings).
>>In New York you can choose between "business" and "family" or
>>something like that plan. Speeds - up to 6Mbps. In Sofia - tens of
>>plans, speeds - up to 1000 Mbps. Prices - adequate: in New York City
>>it is more expensive than in Sofia. I call that a choice.
>>
>>But, again, that is my own, non US-centric, point of view. Or, rather, fact?
>>
>>veni
>>
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