[governance] Are Internet users powerless or empowered, and how?

[Dan Krimm]

Indeed, Veni, competition in consumer broadband last-mile connectivity
service in the US is dreadfully low.

So, all that really does is support Karl's claim of end user powerlessness
that George was disputing.  It seems to me that Karl was just allowing
George's point without deep analysis (or perhaps Karl was thinking about
domain-hosting services, independent of last-mile connectivity, where
competition remains quite robust even in the US -- "ISP" may not be a very
precise term anymore) because Karl was making a different point about power
in institutional structures of political governance, rather than power in a
commercial marketplace (two *very* different realms).

Please, this is just a "gotcha" tactic of rhetorical distraction, and
brings us off point from what Karl and George are really trying to discuss,
which is a substantive issue of real significance.

This is precisely part of the "noise" that dilutes productive discussion on
this list.  There was really no need for this comment at all, and nothing
was really gained by it, unless you were simply trying to spuriously
undermine trust in Karl as an individual speaker.  That is not a
substantive topic.

As long as we're trying to clear the list of ad hominems, can we please try
to clear this stuff off too?  It dissipates the substantive focus of
discussions on the list, and that's good for no one except those who wish
to obstruct and distract from such productive discussion.

Thanks,
Dan



At 3:31 PM -0500 11/30/07, Veni Markovski wrote:
>At 11:20 11/30/2007  -0800, Karl wrote:
>
>>For example, yes, we users have great power in the marketplace to
>>select ISP's and the like.
>
>This sounds strange. At least in New York City there is a choice -
>between cable Internet and Verizon. Both are at the same price, more
>or less. Is this really a choice? Compare: in Sofia, Bulgaria you can
>choose among about 20 big ISPs, and about 500 smaller  (true, in the
>whole city, not each of them covers all of the buildings).
>In New York you can choose between "business" and "family" or
>something like that plan. Speeds - up to 6Mbps. In Sofia - tens of
>plans, speeds - up to 1000 Mbps. Prices - adequate: in New York City
>it is more expensive than in Sofia. I call that a choice.
>
>But, again, that is my own, non US-centric, point of view. Or, rather, fact?
>
>veni
>
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