[governance] Program for IGC at IGF

[George Sadowsky]

Milton,

I'm concerned with a slightly broader aspect, although my focus in 
this thread is clearly upon access, in a larger sense.  I'm concerned 
about the economic health of the Internet industry in a country, and 
that's very much a function of the government's attitude toward 
competition, free enterprise, laissez-faire (or not), and 
transparency, in procurement, in giving licenses, in creating or 
destroying barriers to entry, etc....

The healthier and fairer that the industry is, the more prices to 
consumers of Internet services will reflect real costs and not 
monopoly status, the more customers are able to trust the access they 
have as being confidential, then the faster the Internet will grow 
and serve the developmental goals of the country.  And, if the 
country has reasonable consumer protection legislation, it is likely 
to really benefit the growth of e-commerce on the net and not retard 
it.  These are issues that are directly affected by national 
government policy, legislation and regulation.

What I do disagree with is Avri's assertion that it is ONLY on the 
international stage that Internet issues can be dealt with.  I do not 
disagree with the implication that there do exist issues that require 
international attention.

Just trying to restore a sense of balance to the discussion ...

Regards,

George

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

At 4:05 PM -0400 10/22/06, Milton Mueller wrote:
>This is an interesting discussion. I find myself agreeing with both Avri
>and George. The positions can be reconciled by noting that George is
>talking mainly about the relationship between Internet access and the
>physical layer (wireless, broadband and other forms of infrastructure
>development) whereas Avri is refrring to "the Internet" as a whole which
>is of course global in scope and a layer 3 issue.
>
>There is no doubt in my mind that the policies that affect the
>availability of physical infrastructure in a country are primarily
>national in development and application. And they are affected not only
>by national telecom policies, they are powerfully affected by national
>economic development policies, for if people have enough money to buy
>services lots of infrastructure development issues take care of
>themselves more readily, as the Chinese have learned.
>
>
>
>>>>  george.sadowsky at attglobal.net 10/22/2006 9:01:20 AM >>>
>Avri,
>
>Let's look at access policy _within_ a country, e.g. licensing of
>ISPs, decisions with regard to ISP liability, monopoly telecomm
>carriers, not-level playing fields, licensing of ISPs, licensing of
>wireless frequencies and devices.  etc.  These are all issues of
>national policy.
>
>It may be that international best practices can provide good
>guidelines, but these are more likely to be de facto standards set by
>industry than the result of intergovernmental action.
>
>Perhaps we have different definitions of policy.
>
>George
>
>At 12:04 AM +0200 10/22/06, Avri Doria wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>On 21 okt 2006, at 21.11, George Sadowsky wrote:
>>
>>>What I am reacting to is what I observe is the conventional wisdom
>>>that I find faulty: that Internet governance and related Internet
>>>issues are essentially international in character,
>>
>>
>>I disagree. I think it is only on the international stage that
>>governance and other Internet issues can be dealt.  I don't believe
>>that it is up to governments to do it though i do see them having
>>some role.  i don't believe there is is any right of nations to make
>>policy vis a vis the Internet.  They may do so, and they even get
>>away with it at the moment, but i think we lose a major battle the
>>second we start to believe that they have some _right_ to do so.  I
>>tend to view the IGF and other international, but not
>>intergovernemental, organizations as a bulwark against the
>>continuing nationalization of the Internet.
>>
>>>that wanted to emasculate ICANN
>  >
>>interesting image, but i do not see what being masculine, or having
>>masculine external attributes, has to do with being an effective
>>international organization.  not that i am prepared to argue that
>>the current ICANN incarnation is particularly effective, though i
>>think that has more to do with its form of governance and its lack
>>of freedom from national and other government pressure.
>>
>>a.
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