No subject
Thu Jan 13 08:49:26 EST 2022
Brazil of inclusion of civil society in matters having to do with Internet
Governance is among the best anywhere.
And yes, for sure we need to be cautious down the road to ensure that the
rights of citizens/users on the Internet are respected.
Ensuring that the rule of law is operative in the online world as much as in
the off-line would go a very long way to achieving that end and an endless
talk-fest as per the IGF seems very unlikely to achieve very much in that
direction.
However, the bold move from the President of Brazil, particularly since they
and she are specifically agrieved parties to the current lawlessness gives
some hope that their initiative will be in the desired direction. I think
based on your arguments you should be a strong supporter of the proposed
letter if only to ensure as much as is possible a role for CS in the
discussions which will I'm sure be starting almost immediately.
Best,
Mike
From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org
[mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Robert Guerra
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 10:29 AM
To: Internet Governance Caucus
Subject: Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff & Chehade: Brazil will
host world event on Internet governance in 2014
Anja +1
We need to be strategic. We also should beware of the consequences of not
engaging in a strategic fashion that takes into consideration geopolitics.
I worry at the level of exuberant enthusiasm felt by many. I fear , as has
happened in the past, CS might be pawns in larger play by far better
resourced actors that ultimately will result in a very different , more
state-centric model of Internet governance where rights are trampled on. I
hope I'm wrong...
regards
Robert
--
R. Guerra
Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081
Twitter: twitter.com/netfreedom
Email: rguerra at privaterra.org
On 2013-10-11, at 1:07 PM, Anja Kovacs wrote:
When civil society writes too many letters to a person in short succession,
I am afraid they loose their force. As I wrote on the Best Bits list, CS
letters should be received with a mix of excitement and apprehension, I am
concerned that when we send a third, more detailed letter to President
Rousseff next week, she will simply receive it with fatigue.
Civil society is asking for seats at the table all the time. The point is
what we do when we get there. I think a more detailed letter in ten days
time will have more force.
Also because we don't have to sit still in the mean time. There are other
ways in which we can make evident to the Brazilian government that we are
interested in working with them on this and support this idea, including by
communicating with them to find out more directly and by seeing whether we
can work with them on this through the IGF.
My two paise,
Anja
On 11 October 2013 22:04, Norbert Bollow <nb at bollow.ch> wrote:
Parminder <parminder at itforchange.net> wrote:
> You are just making a general statement that caution and foresight is
> good - and with such a statement who can disagree.... But here I
> havent been told the risk - and beyond a point, just about any
> political act carries risk.
Also, not acting when an opportunity presents itself carries
more than just the risk of losing that opportunity, it carries the
certainty of losing that opportunity.
Greetings,
Norbert
____________________________________________________________
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
--
Dr. Anja Kovacs
The Internet Democracy Project
+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs
www.internetdemocracy.in <http://www.internetdemocracy.in/>
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
governance at lists.igcaucus.org
To be removed from the list, visit:
http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing
For all other list information and functions, see:
http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:
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Translate this email: http://translate.google.com/translate_t
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Robert,<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>From my observation and experience with CGI et=
c. the recent history in Brazil of inclusion of civil society in matters ha=
ving to do with Internet Governance is among the best anywhere.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'>And yes, for sure we need to be cautious down the road =
to ensure that the rights of citizens/users on the Internet are respected.&=
nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Ensuring that the rule of law is opera=
tive in the online world as much as in the off-line would go a very long wa=
y to achieving that end and an endless talk-fest as per the IGF seems very =
unlikely to achieve very much in that direction. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4=
97D'>However, the bold move from the President of Brazil, particularly sinc=
e they and she are specifically agrieved parties to the current lawlessness=
gives some hope that their initiative will be in the desired direction.&nb=
sp; I think based on your arguments you should be a strong supporter of the=
proposed letter if only to ensure as much as is possible a role for CS in =
the discussions which will I'm sure be starting almost immediately.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Mike<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div=
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in =
0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"T=
ahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org [mailto=
:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Guerra<b=
r><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 11, 2013 10:29 AM<br><b>To:</b> Internet Gov=
ernance Caucus<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits] Rousseff =
& Chehade: Brazil will host world event on Internet governance in 2014<=
o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Anja +1<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>We need to be strategic. We =
also should beware of the consequences of not engaging in a strategic fashi=
on that takes into consideration geopolitics. <o:p></o:p></p></div><di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
>I worry at the level of exuberant enthusiasm felt by many. I fear , a=
s has happened in the past, CS might be pawns in larger play by far better =
resourced actors that ultimately will result in a very different , mo=
re state-centric model of Internet governance where rights are trampled on.=
I hope I'm wrong...<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nb=
sp;</o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l>Robert<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p=
></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><=
p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica"=
,"sans-serif";color:black'>--<br>R. Guerra<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica=
","sans-serif";color:black'>Phone/Cell: +1 202-905-2081<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:13.5pt;font-fami=
ly:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Twitter: <a href=3D"http://twitter=
.com/netfreedom">twitter.com/netfreedom</a> <br>Email: <a href=3D"mail=
to:rguerra at privaterra.org">rguerra at privaterra.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</div></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 2013-10-11, at 1:07 PM, Anja Kovacs wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal>When civil society writes too many letters to a person in short suc=
cession, I am afraid they loose their force. As I wrote on the Best Bits li=
st, CS letters should be received with a mix of excitement and apprehension=
, I am concerned that when we send a third, more detailed letter to Preside=
nt Rousseff next week, she will simply receive it with fatigue. <o:p></o:p>=
</p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Civil soci=
ety is asking for seats at the table all the time. The point is what we do =
when we get there. I think a more detailed letter in ten days time will hav=
e more force. <br><br>Also because we don't have to sit still in the mean t=
ime. There are other ways in which we can make evident to the Brazilian gov=
ernment that we are interested in working with them on this and suppo=
rt this idea, including by communicating with them to find out more directl=
y and by seeing whether we can work with them on this through the IGF. <o:p=
></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>My two paise,<o:p></o:p></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Anja<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p=
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal>On 11 October 2013 22:04, Norbert Bollow <<a href=
=3D"mailto:nb at bollow.ch" target=3D"_blank">nb at bollow.ch</a>> wrote:<o:p>=
</o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Parminde=
r <<a href=3D"mailto:parminder at itforchange.net">parminder at itforchange.ne=
t</a>> wrote:<br><br>> You are just making a general statement that c=
aution and foresight is<br>> good - and with such a statement who can di=
sagree.... But here I<br>> havent been told the risk - and beyond =
a point, just about any<br>> political act carries risk.<o:p></o:p></p><=
/div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Also, not acting w=
hen an opportunity presents itself carries<br>more than just the risk of lo=
sing that opportunity, it carries the<br>certainty of losing that opportuni=
ty.<br><br>Greetings,<br>Norbert<br><br><br>_______________________________=
_____________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber =
on the list:<br> <a href=3D"mailto:governance at lists.igca=
ucus.org">governance at lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the list,=
visit:<br> <a href=3D"http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscri=
bing" target=3D"_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>Fo=
r all other list information and functions, see:<br> <a =
href=3D"http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find=
the IGC's charter, see:<br> <a href=3D"http://www.igcau=
cus.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate t=
his email: <a href=3D"http://translate.google.com/translate_t" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><br><br clear=3Dall><br>-- <br>Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>The Inter=
net Democracy Project<br><br>+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs<br><a href=3D"htt=
p://www.internetdemocracy.in/" target=3D"_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</=
a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal>_______________________________=
_____________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber =
on the list:<br> <a href=3D"mailto:governance at lists.=
igcaucus.org">governance at lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>To be removed from the l=
ist, visit:<br> <a href=3D"http://www.igcaucus.org/u=
nsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br><br>For all othe=
r list information and functions, see:<br> <a href=
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fo/governance</a><br>To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, se=
e:<br> <a href=3D"http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://w=
ww.igcaucus.org/</a><br><br>Translate this email: <a href=3D"http://transla=
te.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><o:p>=
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