[bestbits] [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits

Wed Jan 9 03:02:28 EST 2019

On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 11:48 AM ian.peter at ianpeter.com <
ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:

> Actually while this seemed to me the obvious way forward at first - BB
> emerged out of IGC, so why not get back together again - on reflection
> there are a few issues.
>

+1.   The participants of IGC were almost automatically added to BB.  In
any case BB is the more recent of the two lists, and a sizeable proportion
of the BB list are IGC participants. It would be easier to merge into IGC
list, the optics of a longer history is the added advantage of merging into
IGC.

Sivasubramanian M

>
> Firstly I note that the IGC website is down so I cant check things - but
> from memory IGC had a constitution which we adopted early on which proved
> very difficult to change, and which may not be altogether suitable for what
> is needed now. I think this should be looked at before everyone is locked
> into something that is unsuitable. Can someone get the website up and
> running?
>
> But in any case, merging I think is necessary. At the very worst, if IGC
> proves to be a not completely suitable platform going forward, there is
> always the option to start something else to overcome the problems and get
> everyone to move on.
>
> The key I think is to work together and to seek the simplest paths forward
> to do this.
>
> Ian
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Nadira Alaraj" <nadira.araj at gmail.com>
> To: "Carolina Rossini" <carolina.rossini at gmail.com>
> Cc: "<bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
> Sent: 9/01/2019 4:17:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [bestbits] [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits
>
> Valid questions Carolina,
> If you didn't get a replies from members of the founding Bestbits groups
> then the current membership are none affiliated individuals. Therefore,
> Ian's proposal is the practical solution.
> Best,
> Nadira
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019, 06:19 Carolina Rossini <carolina.rossini at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> While Ian’s idea is interesting, I wonder - Who is in the BB list and is
>> not in the IGC list? Why is that the case? Are there barriers/conditions to
>> entry? Are they high or low barriers?
>>
>> As Ian also noticed, both lists were born from different/specific
>> communities, principles, ways of work, diversity, etc.
>>
>> Should the IGC’s principles and ways of work be laid out here, so they
>> are handy for folks to review and give their opinion if this is the
>> preferred way to move forward?
>>
>> It would be interesting to hear specially from those non overlapping
>> folks before moving forward. I feel it would also be relevant to some if
>> the ICG founders commit to be open to potential new input and feedback.
>>
>> Maybe there is a deal to be striken here to ensure IGC is the correct
>> place.
>>
>> I don’t want to complicate things, I just want to make sure all are heard
>> and have the tools to express their preference.
>>
>> Happy new year, everybody!
>>
>> C
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019 at 9:29 PM Lee W McKnight <lmcknigh at syr.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I support Ian's idea as well.
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net <
>>> bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net> on behalf of Judith Hellerstein <
>>> judith at jhellerstein.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 8, 2019 4:53:02 PM
>>> *To:* bestbits at lists.bestbits.net
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [bestbits] [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with
>>> Best Bits
>>>
>>>
>>> HI,
>>>
>>> I support Ian's idea
>>>
>>> Judith
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________________
>>> Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEO
>>> Hellerstein & Associates
>>> 3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008
>>> Phone: (202) 362-5139  Skype ID: judithhellerstein
>>> Mobile/Whats app: +1202-333-6517
>>> E-mail: Judith at jhellerstein.com   Website: www.jhellerstein.com
>>> Linked In: www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/
>>> Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/8/2019 3:35 PM, ian.peter at ianpeter.com wrote:
>>>
>>> I support the idea of merging. BB served a useful purpose for a while
>>> but that time has past.
>>>
>>> I suggest the easiest way to do this is for BB to decide to disband, and
>>> encourage any remaining members who are not already on the IGC mailing list
>>> to join up there.
>>>
>>> Ian
>>>
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> From: "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com>
>>> To: "Sheetal Kumar" <sheetal at gp-digital.org>
>>> Cc: "&lt bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
>>> Sent: 9/01/2019 4:52:30 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [bestbits] [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best
>>> Bits
>>>
>>> A good idea as this is, can we get the genesis of how CS was split into
>>> different groupings?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 8, 2019, 8:31 PM Sheetal Kumar <sheetal at gp-digital.org
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> (dropping IGC as this is just for Bestbits members) Firstly, happy new
>>>> year! I am writing to follow up on the conversation with regards to a
>>>> proposal to merge IGC and Bestbits, discussed by those who attended the
>>>> call organised last December.
>>>>
>>>> As noted earlier, the merger of the two groups was suggested as a way
>>>> of avoiding duplication of work between groups, pooling resources and
>>>> streamlining efforts so that they're more focused and coordinated -
>>>> particularly around key forums and events.
>>>>
>>>> It would be interesting to hear feedback on this idea, positive or
>>>> otherwise. Otherwise, I suggest another call to decide next steps?
>>>>
>>>> Best
>>>> Sheetal.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 at 02:46, ian.peter at ianpeter.com <
>>>> ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Arsene,
>>>>>
>>>>> Mergers are difficult and imagine that both sides are going to have to
>>>>> change structurally so that they can work together. Both organisations have
>>>>> working rules and practices, changing both sets will be complex and I think
>>>>> unnecessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> My opinion is that, in this case, BB should just decide to fold - and
>>>>> in doing so, encourage its members to join IGC if they are not already
>>>>> involved.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's a lot simpler and leaves IGC intact and continuing as an
>>>>> umbrella groups for civil society involvement in internet governance.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Best Bits copied in). Just suggesting this because I think it is a
>>>>> lot easier.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ian Peter
>>>>>
>>>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>>>> From: "Arsène Tungali" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>>>> To: "Mueller, Milton L" <milton at gatech.edu>
>>>>> Cc: "Farzaneh Badiei" <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>; "
>>>>> governance at lists.riseup.net" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>>>> Sent: 21/12/2018 9:12:28 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits
>>>>>
>>>>> Milton, i think i tried to explain why i was suggesting that. Sorry if
>>>>> that was not clear. The reason is simple: we agreed to take time to discuss
>>>>> the merger issue within the two groups separately. So, if we Cc both lists
>>>>> that means to me we are not doing separately anymore. That’s my
>>>>> understanding and i may be wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 20 Dec 2018, at 23:32, Mueller, Milton L <milton at gatech.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why segregate the discussions, Arsene?
>>>>> I don't understand that. It merely perpetuates the problem of a
>>>>> fragmented and uncoordinated civil society!
>>>>>
>>>>> --MM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: governance-request at lists.riseup.net [mailto:governance-
>>>>> request at lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of Arsène Tungali
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 12:32 AM
>>>>> To: Farzaneh Badiei <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: bestbits at lists.bestbits.net&gt &lt <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>;
>>>>> governance <governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [governance] IMPORTANT : Merging IGC with Best Bits
>>>>>
>>>>> Farzaneh, all,
>>>>>
>>>>> While we are still discussing and I do appreciate the discussion, may
>>>>> I please
>>>>> suggest we keep discussions separate in each specific group?
>>>>> As I said in my original email, the issue of a merger should be
>>>>> discussed
>>>>> SEPARATELY at the IGC and Best Bits lists.
>>>>>
>>>>> Each group needs to have an internal discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, please do not Cc both groups when communicating. Some members are
>>>>> on both lists and have posting rights on both but others don't, this
>>>>> may lead
>>>>> to having fragmented pieces of emails when everyone is responding.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this makes sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Arsene
>>>>>
>>>>> 2018-12-17 23:33 UTC+02:00, farzaneh badii <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Arsene.
>>>>>
>>>>> We need to decide on merging IGC and BestBits. The suggestion comes
>>>>> from the fact that we have not been active much during the past year.
>>>>> Also fragmented efforts are a strain on resources. Having multiple
>>>>> elections and multiple groups to coordinate (with really minimal
>>>>> differences) and then not be active at all for a year is not really
>>>>>
>>>>> recommendable.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> De told us that apparently there is some kind of consensus method if I
>>>>> am not mistaken. De, is there a documented approach?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the most important is to discuss why BestBits was created and
>>>>> whether the reasons still stand and how BestBits members feel about
>>>>> the merge. Maybe the ones with strong objections can be convinced,
>>>>>
>>>>> maybe not.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lets have the conversation. If we do not see a strong objection
>>>>> (multiple organizations, individuals object and give reasons as to why
>>>>> BestBits should remain even if dormant), then we can decide on the
>>>>> merge. If there are strong objections, then we will not go with the
>>>>> merge.
>>>>>
>>>>> From what I see from BestBits website, the following individuals are
>>>>> at the steering committee of BestBits:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> - Nighat Dad
>>>>> - Poncelet Ileleji
>>>>> - Renata Ribeiro
>>>>> - Dave Burstein
>>>>> - Imran Ahmed Shah [second term of election]
>>>>> - Antonella Perini [co-opted by committee]
>>>>>
>>>>> Besbits CSCG Representatives
>>>>>
>>>>> - Claudio Lucena Neto (2018-2019)
>>>>> - Sheetal Kumar (2017-2018)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this list still stand? Do the steering committee members of
>>>>> BestBits and the reps on CSCG would like to weigh in?
>>>>>
>>>>> I know Sheetal was on the call. Would be good to hear from others.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Farzaneh
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Dec 17, 2018 at 9:00 AM Arsène Tungali
>>>>> <governance at lists.riseup.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> You have probably seen this already on a different thread but thought
>>>>> it well to have this discussion solely on the IGC list (as I expect
>>>>> Best Bits to do the same), that's why i started this thread hoping to
>>>>> hear from you on this important question.
>>>>>
>>>>> This need for merging was raised by some IGC members during a civil
>>>>> society call that had mostly IGC and Best Bits participants; many of
>>>>> whom are both IGC and Best Bits (BB) members. The call happened last
>>>>> week and Farzaneh offered to share the link to the recording.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will not go into much details about the rationale but would welcome
>>>>> anyone to weigh in and share their reasoning on whether or not we
>>>>> should merge both lists. We will need to also answer the question on
>>>>> how (who is doing what?) will this happen? Is the IGC going to become
>>>>> BB or the latter becoming IGC? Or are we working towards a different
>>>>> group where members of both groups will all be added?
>>>>>
>>>>> This brings back to my memory the whole hassle we had to migrate
>>>>> (SAVE?) this list and allow us to have this discussion list (which
>>>>> hasn't been quite active for a few months but where many feel safe to
>>>>> share IG related updates). So i hope we discuss and take into account
>>>>> the technical cost of the merging process (should it happen).
>>>>>
>>>>> I am also not sure how we will gauge consensus about this question on
>>>>> this list? Should we vote? How long do we take to decide? Should we
>>>>> consult IGC 'founders' or former Co-coordinators separately and ask
>>>>> them what they think?
>>>>>
>>>>> During the call, Bruna and I offered to have a decision by
>>>>> mid-January and we hope this is realistic given the holiday season.
>>>>> We will then report to the group.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just wanted to throw this all here and would REALLY appreciate a
>>>>> discussion that will help us move forward and come to a conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Arsene
>>>>> ---
>>>>> To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>
>>>>> List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> **Arsène Tungali* <http://about.me/ArseneTungali>* Co-Founder &
>>>>> Executive Director, *Rudi international <
>>>>> http://www.rudiinternational.org>*,
>>>>> CEO,* Smart Services Sarl <https://www.smart-kitoko.com/>*,
>>>>> Tel: +243 993810967
>>>>> GPG: 523644A0
>>>>> *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo*
>>>>>
>>>>> 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow
>>>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com/2015/06/selected-for-2015-mandela-
>>>>> washington.html>
>>>>> (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil
>>>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-
>>>>> programmes/next-generation-leaders/igf-ambassadors-programme/Past-
>>>>> Ambassadors>
>>>>> & Mexico
>>>>> <http://www.internetsociety.org/what-we-do/education-and-leadership-
>>>>> programmes/next-generation-leaders/Current-Ambassadors>)
>>>>> - AFRISIG 2016 <http://afrisig.org/afrisig-2016/class-of-2016/> -
>>>>> Blogger
>>>>> <http://tungali.blogspot.com> - ICANN's GNSO Council
>>>>> <https://gnso.icann.org/en/about/gnso-council.htm> Member. AFRINIC
>>>>> Fellow ( Mauritius
>>>>> <http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/1907-afrinic-25-fellowship-
>>>>> winners>)*
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________________
>>>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Sheetal Kumar*
>>>> Programme Lead | GLOBAL PARTNERS DIGITAL
>>>> Second Home, 68-80 Hanbury Street, London, E1 5JL
>>>> T: +44 (0)20 3 818 3258| M: +44 (0)7739569514  |
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>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> *Carolina Rossini *
>> + 1 (617) 697 9389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
>> PGP ID:  0xEC81015C
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>
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