[bestbits] [Ext] Re: OFF-TOPIC - Brazil: Return to Terror

Mon Oct 29 18:56:11 EDT 2018

Bruna's comment is on point. Brazil's and the US's experience with fake
news should be a wake up call for other countries, hopefully we can all
collectively learn from those experiences.

Gustavo Paiva.

On Mon, 29 Oct 2018 at 19:40, Sylvia Cadena <sylvia at apnic.net> wrote:

> Totally agree with you, Bruna.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------
>
>
>
> Sylvia Cadena | APNIC Foundation - Head of Programs | sylvia at apnic.net |
> http://www.apnic.foundation
>
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> *From: *"bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net" <
> bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net> on behalf of Bruna Martins dos
> Santos <bruna.mrtns at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *Bruna Martins dos Santos <bruna.mrtns at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, 30 October 2018 at 7:20 am
> *To: *parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> *Cc: *farzaneh badii BADII <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>, Nigel Hickson <
> nigel.hickson at icann.org>, Carolina Rossini <carolina.rossini at gmail.com>,
> Bestbits <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [bestbits] [Ext] Re: OFF-TOPIC - Brazil: Return to Terror
>
>
>
> Hey all,
>
>
>
> Just my two cents here: I dont personally think that the problem with
> Bolsonaro is neoliberalism - If this was the problem I dont think
> brazilians would be utterly concerned with him. He can go from defending
> little or none regulation to the internet (like his campaign which
> circulated content criticizing the Marco Civil da internet) to denying that
> situations such as the Holocaust happened, and for such incoherence I dont
> think there is a word. I dont even dare call Bolsonaro a liberal because
> from the positions he openly takes he can easily be considered as a
> hard-right nationalist.
>
>
>
> Anyways, these ought to be hard times for us in Brazil and I think we
> should keep on advocating for our values and principles. Trying to find
> someone to put the blame here Isnt much of a way forward. We should be
> taking both the American and Brazilian elections vastly dominated by the
> spread of fake news as an example to think of solutions to the problem - if
> there's any.
>
>
>
> Best,
> Bruna Santos
>
>
>
> Em seg, 29 de out de 2018 às 09:34, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> escreveu:
>
>
>
> On 29/10/18 5:01 PM, farzaneh badii wrote:
>
> Very much agree Nigel.
>
>
>
> And using the political environment and this election which has made
> people suffer just to repeat the old baseless argument that it was the
> neoliberals fault is absolutely wrong in my opinion.
>
>
>
> Interesting, very few people actually defend neo-liberalism, esp in global
> civil society groups. But sure, you well may...
>
> Evidently, from Trump to Brexit to Bolsorno, and I am not mentioning a few
> other names, very similar things are happening across the world....
> Obviously that kind of seemingly unconnected very similar events need a
> theory to explain. You dont agree with mine, so may I ask what is yours...
> What do you think is happening? I do not think that a politically active
> and mature CS group should just comment on such important events without
> any analysis, much less 'what to do', at all.
>
> And to Nigel's comment below. "The spirit of the people of Brazil cannot
> be eradicated by one man.". You really think Bolsorno is one man?
>
> parminder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 12:28 AM Nigel Hickson <nigel.hickson at icann.org>
> wrote:
>
> Good morning
>
>
>
> The spirit of the people of Brazil cannot be eradicated by one man.  Bad
> leaders come and (hopefully) go;
>
>
>
> Best
>
>
>
> Nigel
>
>
>
> *From: *<bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net> on behalf of Carolina
> Rossini <carolina.rossini at gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *Carolina Rossini <carolina.rossini at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday, 29 October 2018 at 06:15
> *To: *parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> *Cc: *"bestbits at lists.bestbits.net" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
> *Subject: *[Ext] Re: [bestbits] OFF-TOPIC - Brazil: Return to Terror
>
>
>
> Wow! I agree with Parminder! Ah!
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 10:13 PM parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 29/10/18 3:47 AM, ian.peter at ianpeter.com wrote:
>
> Very sad that this has happened, Carlos. Lurches to the right seem
> commonplace these days.
>
>
>
> Brazil was a great leader as regards multistakeholder internet governance
> initiatives, and I do hope that all is not lost with this change. Certainly
> what has been achieved in the past sets a great example and part of history
> which I hope is not forgotten.
>
>
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> I dont want to make capital out of unfortunate times, but truth is as
> important to speak out at such times, if we are not just to make pro forma
> regrets but to look ahead with vision and purpose, and thus any real
> hope....
>
> Dear Ian, do you really think that a multistakeholder model which
> culminated in trying to install a World Economic Forum based global
> Internet Governance regime instead of a UN based one was itself not a lurch
> to right? That is also history that must not be forgotten, and released
> from its responsibilities.
>
> The current Trumpian phenomenon is precisely the product of a
> trans-national elite seeking their common economic advantages often using
> the cover of social liberalism without economic egalitarianism -- where
> market without political governance was to be the defender of rights! This
> is a direct result of promotion of an one-sided talk of human rights --
> only civil and political ones and not social and economic ones, which have
> openly been flouted even ridiculed on , yes, IG civil society lists.... Dot
> ask me for real examples, bec I have followed this and I know many.... Ok,
> take two, the very concept and not just the real implementation of 'public
> interest' has been ridiculed on the NCUC (of ICANN's)website, to which many
> CS stalwarts of IG belong. A key leader of CS community has said 'social
> justice' is a meaningless concept, another that the term 'democracy carries
> baggage', and when appeals (like at UNESCO's key Paris meeting on IG) were
> circulated to simply ensure that social and economic rights get mentioned
> along with civil and public rights in the conf document there wasnt much
> sympathy on these lists.. And yes, also when all progressive civil society
> is fighting for a binding treaty on human rights abuses by corporations,
> key leaders write here why any such thing is a bad idea .... .I can go on
> and on ...
>
> And so lets not assume innocence about this creeping death of progressive
> and democratic ideals that the global trans-national elite has brought on
> us in blind pursuit of their global economic interests (Zizek's 'Clinton
> not Trump is the problem' precisely captures it).
>
> This is the dispossessed reacting against the global neoliberal excesses
> in the only ways they could think of, or were made available to them,
> however deleterious the results are finally going to be for them. But lets
> not look away from what or who is responsible here.....
>
> When we seethe  market, the embodiment of un-restrained self-interest, as
> the institution that will govern us in all areas (which is the definition
> of neoliberalism) including of rights, welfare, etc, then one can very well
> expect a Trump and a Bolsanaro to come along and say, well self-interest,
> fine, this is what it politically is, everyone fending for oneself and
> one's narrow interests, and avowedly and unabashedly so ...  Trump and
> Bolsorno are the other side of the same trans-national neo-liberalism of
> which Internet governance space has been a key, often pioneering arena. It
> is a local, political response of the justifiably angry and dispossessed,
> even if a suicidal one... T and B are simply neoliberalism's narrow
> profession of unbridled self-interest without the spin and false
> sophisticated sheen that is just there to reflect away deserved criticism
> -- it is the proverbial chickens coming home to roost.
>
> With hope and solidarity
>
> parminder
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
>
> From: "Carlos Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>
>
> To: "BestBits List" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
>
> Sent: 28/10/2018 1:29:02 AM
>
> Subject: [bestbits] OFF-TOPIC - Brazil: Return to Terror
>
>
>
> Dear colleagues, this article may give you an idea of what might happen
>
> in Brazil with the presidential elections tomorrow.
>
>
>
> Sorry for this, but the situation may be terrifying for anyone who
>
> opposes the ultra-right-wing candidate. The article by Pablo Villaça (in
>
> English) is an accurate review:
>
>
>
> https://www.rogerebert.com/far-flung-correspondents/brazilian-election-2018-bolsonaro
> [rogerebert.com]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.rogerebert.com_far-2Dflung-2Dcorrespondents_brazilian-2Delection-2D2018-2Dbolsonaro&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=cqhruVEaSZ2dxhFez02DlPN_zLCuNED-Ue1ZK4F0bZQ&s=_sE7gIYMTB6OB6pp0JT6cAgKUXDv4MOPKILUBlNWJy8&e=>
>
>
>
> The article is also attached in PDF.
>
>
>
> Bolsonaro threatens to liquidate all NGOs and social movements -- who
>
> can choose between prison and exile. Fundamental achievements like our
>
> multistakeholder Internet governance system, our Internet Bill of
>
> Rights, and many other human rights-related laws are at risk.
>
>
>
> fraternal regards
>
>
>
> --c.a.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> Carlos A. Afonso
>
> [emails são pessoais exceto quando explicitamente indicado em contrário]
>
> [emails are personal unless explicitly indicated otherwise]
>
>
>
> Instituto Nupef - https://nupef.org.br [nupef.org.br]
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>
> ISOC-BR - https://isoc.org.br [isoc.org.br]
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__isoc.org.br&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=cqhruVEaSZ2dxhFez02DlPN_zLCuNED-Ue1ZK4F0bZQ&s=5haou0MZpB4i6bua90CKW8LXu2UmnuY_ruMFHFkq9eI&e=>
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> --
>
>
>
> *Carolina Rossini *
>
> + 1 (617) 697 9389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
>
> PGP ID:  0xEC81015C
>
> --
>
> Farzaneh
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
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>
> --
>
> *Bruna Martins dos Santos *
>
>
>
> Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
>
> @boomartins
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