[bestbits] [Ext] Re: OFF-TOPIC - Brazil: Return to Terror

Mon Oct 29 17:19:46 EDT 2018

Hey all,

Just my two cents here: I dont personally think that the problem with
Bolsonaro is neoliberalism - If this was the problem I dont think
brazilians would be utterly concerned with him. He can go from defending
little or none regulation to the internet (like his campaign which
circulated content criticizing the Marco Civil da internet) to denying that
situations such as the Holocaust happened, and for such incoherence I dont
think there is a word. I dont even dare call Bolsonaro a liberal because
from the positions he openly takes he can easily be considered as a
hard-right nationalist.

Anyways, these ought to be hard times for us in Brazil and I think we
should keep on advocating for our values and principles. Trying to find
someone to put the blame here Isnt much of a way forward. We should be
taking both the American and Brazilian elections vastly dominated by the
spread of fake news as an example to think of solutions to the problem - if
there's any.

Best,
Bruna Santos

Em seg, 29 de out de 2018 às 09:34, parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
escreveu:

>
> On 29/10/18 5:01 PM, farzaneh badii wrote:
>
> Very much agree Nigel.
>
> And using the political environment and this election which has made
> people suffer just to repeat the old baseless argument that it was the
> neoliberals fault is absolutely wrong in my opinion.
>
>
> Interesting, very few people actually defend neo-liberalism, esp in global
> civil society groups. But sure, you well may...
>
> Evidently, from Trump to Brexit to Bolsorno, and I am not mentioning a few
> other names, very similar things are happening across the world....
> Obviously that kind of seemingly unconnected very similar events need a
> theory to explain. You dont agree with mine, so may I ask what is yours...
> What do you think is happening? I do not think that a politically active
> and mature CS group should just comment on such important events without
> any analysis, much less 'what to do', at all.
>
> And to Nigel's comment below. "The spirit of the people of Brazil cannot
> be eradicated by one man.". You really think Bolsorno is one man?
>
> parminder
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 12:28 AM Nigel Hickson <nigel.hickson at icann.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Good morning
>>
>>
>>
>> The spirit of the people of Brazil cannot be eradicated by one man.  Bad
>> leaders come and (hopefully) go;
>>
>>
>>
>> Best
>>
>>
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *<bestbits-request at lists.bestbits.net> on behalf of Carolina
>> Rossini <carolina.rossini at gmail.com>
>> *Reply-To: *Carolina Rossini <carolina.rossini at gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Monday, 29 October 2018 at 06:15
>> *To: *parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>> *Cc: *"bestbits at lists.bestbits.net" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
>> *Subject: *[Ext] Re: [bestbits] OFF-TOPIC - Brazil: Return to Terror
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow! I agree with Parminder! Ah!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 10:13 PM parminder <parminder at itforchange.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 29/10/18 3:47 AM, ian.peter at ianpeter.com wrote:
>>
>> Very sad that this has happened, Carlos. Lurches to the right seem
>> commonplace these days.
>>
>>
>>
>> Brazil was a great leader as regards multistakeholder internet governance
>> initiatives, and I do hope that all is not lost with this change. Certainly
>> what has been achieved in the past sets a great example and part of history
>> which I hope is not forgotten.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>> I dont want to make capital out of unfortunate times, but truth is as
>> important to speak out at such times, if we are not just to make pro forma
>> regrets but to look ahead with vision and purpose, and thus any real
>> hope....
>>
>> Dear Ian, do you really think that a multistakeholder model which
>> culminated in trying to install a World Economic Forum based global
>> Internet Governance regime instead of a UN based one was itself not a lurch
>> to right? That is also history that must not be forgotten, and released
>> from its responsibilities.
>>
>> The current Trumpian phenomenon is precisely the product of a
>> trans-national elite seeking their common economic advantages often using
>> the cover of social liberalism without economic egalitarianism -- where
>> market without political governance was to be the defender of rights! This
>> is a direct result of promotion of an one-sided talk of human rights --
>> only civil and political ones and not social and economic ones, which have
>> openly been flouted even ridiculed on , yes, IG civil society lists.... Dot
>> ask me for real examples, bec I have followed this and I know many.... Ok,
>> take two, the very concept and not just the real implementation of 'public
>> interest' has been ridiculed on the NCUC (of ICANN's)website, to which many
>> CS stalwarts of IG belong. A key leader of CS community has said 'social
>> justice' is a meaningless concept, another that the term 'democracy carries
>> baggage', and when appeals (like at UNESCO's key Paris meeting on IG) were
>> circulated to simply ensure that social and economic rights get mentioned
>> along with civil and public rights in the conf document there wasnt much
>> sympathy on these lists.. And yes, also when all progressive civil society
>> is fighting for a binding treaty on human rights abuses by corporations,
>> key leaders write here why any such thing is a bad idea .... .I can go on
>> and on ...
>>
>> And so lets not assume innocence about this creeping death of progressive
>> and democratic ideals that the global trans-national elite has brought on
>> us in blind pursuit of their global economic interests (Zizek's 'Clinton
>> not Trump is the problem' precisely captures it).
>>
>> This is the dispossessed reacting against the global neoliberal excesses
>> in the only ways they could think of, or were made available to them,
>> however deleterious the results are finally going to be for them. But lets
>> not look away from what or who is responsible here.....
>>
>> When we seethe  market, the embodiment of un-restrained self-interest, as
>> the institution that will govern us in all areas (which is the definition
>> of neoliberalism) including of rights, welfare, etc, then one can very well
>> expect a Trump and a Bolsanaro to come along and say, well self-interest,
>> fine, this is what it politically is, everyone fending for oneself and
>> one's narrow interests, and avowedly and unabashedly so ...  Trump and
>> Bolsorno are the other side of the same trans-national neo-liberalism of
>> which Internet governance space has been a key, often pioneering arena. It
>> is a local, political response of the justifiably angry and dispossessed,
>> even if a suicidal one... T and B are simply neoliberalism's narrow
>> profession of unbridled self-interest without the spin and false
>> sophisticated sheen that is just there to reflect away deserved criticism
>> -- it is the proverbial chickens coming home to roost.
>>
>> With hope and solidarity
>>
>> parminder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>>
>> From: "Carlos Afonso" <ca at cafonso.ca>
>>
>> To: "BestBits List" <bestbits at lists.bestbits.net>
>>
>> Sent: 28/10/2018 1:29:02 AM
>>
>> Subject: [bestbits] OFF-TOPIC - Brazil: Return to Terror
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear colleagues, this article may give you an idea of what might happen
>>
>> in Brazil with the presidential elections tomorrow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry for this, but the situation may be terrifying for anyone who
>>
>> opposes the ultra-right-wing candidate. The article by Pablo Villaça (in
>>
>> English) is an accurate review:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.rogerebert.com/far-flung-correspondents/brazilian-election-2018-bolsonaro
>> [rogerebert.com]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.rogerebert.com_far-2Dflung-2Dcorrespondents_brazilian-2Delection-2D2018-2Dbolsonaro&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=cqhruVEaSZ2dxhFez02DlPN_zLCuNED-Ue1ZK4F0bZQ&s=_sE7gIYMTB6OB6pp0JT6cAgKUXDv4MOPKILUBlNWJy8&e=>
>>
>>
>>
>> The article is also attached in PDF.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bolsonaro threatens to liquidate all NGOs and social movements -- who
>>
>> can choose between prison and exile. Fundamental achievements like our
>>
>> multistakeholder Internet governance system, our Internet Bill of
>>
>> Rights, and many other human rights-related laws are at risk.
>>
>>
>>
>> fraternal regards
>>
>>
>>
>> --c.a.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Carlos A. Afonso
>>
>> [emails são pessoais exceto quando explicitamente indicado em contrário]
>>
>> [emails are personal unless explicitly indicated otherwise]
>>
>>
>>
>> Instituto Nupef - https://nupef.org.br [nupef.org.br]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__nupef.org.br&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=cqhruVEaSZ2dxhFez02DlPN_zLCuNED-Ue1ZK4F0bZQ&s=hu579RfBWKMId3XJDtOT_CljtdARoy-LaPMn_PFT7T0&e=>
>>
>> ISOC-BR - https://isoc.org.br [isoc.org.br]
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__isoc.org.br&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=RrrXyaBfa00GH1liTedM3FwobVakuhJ-qs1N8-Ji8VE&m=cqhruVEaSZ2dxhFez02DlPN_zLCuNED-Ue1ZK4F0bZQ&s=5haou0MZpB4i6bua90CKW8LXu2UmnuY_ruMFHFkq9eI&e=>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________
>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> *Carolina Rossini *
>>
>> + 1 (617) 697 9389 | skype: carolrossini | @carolinarossini
>>
>> PGP ID:  0xEC81015C
>>
> --
> Farzaneh
>
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-- 
*Bruna Martins dos Santos *

Skype ID: bruna.martinsantos
@boomartins
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